Osiris, the famed lord of the dead and lover of Isis, his twin sister and wife, once sat on the throne of Egypt. He presided over agriculture, taught his people good and evil, created laws and standards, he laid a pathway forward for human civilization. Egypt prospered and his wife Isis, the god of fertility and healing, loved him as did the people.
All good things come to an end. Osiris’ brother became jealous. He plotted against his own blood. In his jealous he slew his brother, riving his body into many pieces. Isis, with her great power of healing, attempted to bring him back from the dead. Unfortunately, she was also butchered before she could cast the spell. Together, the spirits of Osiris and Isis found themselves at the beginning of their instance, they walked out with the rest of their party, and disbanded their dungeoning fellowship.
In the spirit of tuning, I would give this advice: if Prot Paladin was buffed by 20% tomorrow, the game would be infinitely better for everyone. Many people play other tanks in lower keys - their gaming experienced is oppressed too. Dungeoneers and tanks alike are tired of picking up the pieces of dead Bears, Warriors, or rare but mystical Brewmasters.
NEVER NERF TANKS (NTT)
At this point in the season, as every metric shows people quitting, and the same absence of tanks and healers existing in yet another season, Blizzard must understand that powerful tanks make the M+ experience better for EVERYONE.
Death timers EXACERBATE the M+ experience of tanks. Groups can more aptly pick up damage dealers, but a tank dying will very likely kill a run on timer. In an already pressurized role, I have heard of many tanks at high IO like myself quitting the game due to the constant one shots.
Blizzard kept one promise: “This will not be a kite meta.” Indeed, every tank killer is an infinite range one shot (Rive, Shadowflame Slash, etc.). This needs to be addressed in future seasons or the next content patch.
Tank mechanics SHOULD NOT go off if a stop is used! Tanks have been griefed the WHOLE tier by evokers or other party members using CC that is apart of their rotation. Spell queing is terrible - see shadowflame slash from Grim Batol.
Healers STILL do not have anything to do with keeping tanks alive. Yes, they can support with externals during gaps of mitigation, but in keys 10+ if a tank is not playing well, which dying is much easier to do than in recent seasons due to nerfs and losses of cheat trinkets, groups will be picking up the pieces of the tanks body at the pits of Grim Batol or amongst the piles of dead in Necrotic Wake.
Lastly, the goal of Augmentation nerfs were to lessen the need of them in a high M+ scenario, but by nerfing tanks - it seems to me - that these changes and their goals are in opposition.
The experiment failed. Buff ALL tanks. Make their lives easier. People are getting tired of gathering the remains of dead tanks.
A tank buff wont fix a single thing. Half the people tanking right now are missing braincells or get butt hurt soon as you give them a tip or instruct them on what they need to do. They come to +12s without a prepared route. They chain pull packs that really should never be pulled together. They say things like “group has no damage” as they solo pull 1 mob. The tanks just suck.
This is a weird connection between tanks and the death timer. Most deaths don’t happen from wipes or the tank dying. If anything, tanks are still the last one standing.
They kept their promise. There is no kite meta. There’s literally 1 type of mob that needs to be kited if there isn’t a soothe or stacks of enrage gets too high. Kite meta is when we had to kite constantly.
If the tank is not playing well then shouldn’t they fail in keys that are above all rewards? Your argument is ridiculous. At what point should skill matter then?
This applies to all roles honestly and I feel it is a result of past seasons being too easy. Which causes players to easily brute force their way through and not have to see half of the mechanics.
Really felt like more people understood mechanics and gameplay better in Shadowlands because it was more punishing. What we learned over time is that Blizzard lowering standards only causes more issues.
Okay, I agree that a lot of people suck at the game. Wouldn’t it be helpful if 10s didn’t have mechanics that oneshot tanks that were approaching 625-630 ilvl?
I am a sweaty player. I have 16s timed and we are close to 17 DB/Ara/Mists and other 16s… Gear doesn’t seem to be properly nerfing mechanics like in past seasons. If tanks were stronger the learning curve for newer or “sucky tanks” as you put it would be less.
You can’t take one quote and say “correlation =/ causation”. I gave plenty of examples that make tanking much less forgiving than past seasons.
No tank trinket, nerfs before launch, infinite range tank frontals, tank deaths = wipes on parties which = unrecoverable timer loss, etc.
“Your argument is ridiculous…” Okay, man. LOL The delta between keys timed early on with no gear early in the season, high keys played, and keys with gear later in the season is greater than in past seasons. It is unequivocally hard to find a tank now because these changes have pushed players away from the role. At 625-630 ilvl, I would argue that tanks should feel invulnerable for the health off the game. Blizzard has forever designed the weekly 10 (or in the past 15/18/20) to be achievable by casual players. It is much harder to reach those rewards now.
I disagree. That’s bad design especially when the difference between a good tank and a bad tank in survivability is enormous. To change that, you need to decrease how much a tank is in charge of their own survival.
20s? nah, that was DF S1, then gradually nerfed more and more. (s2,s3).
At what point should one-shot mechanics be a thing for tanks that play poorly then? Where does the line start and how did you come to that conclusion? It’s an odd argument when +10s are the peak of in-game rewards and supposed to be on par with Mythic Raids. I don’t see anything wrong with +10s having one-shot mechanics for poor performance.
This is objectively not true. KSM historically had a percentile of ~30-35% by the end of the season and KSH, which was around top vault for several seasons, was around ~5-10% percentile.
I wouldn’t call something only achievable by the top 5-10% as something designed to be achievable by casual players.
Career tank here. I’m currently building IO on a prot pally alt (Limubaih-Bleeding Hollow).
I’m having the same issues with him I had when I was leveling/building this toon’s IO—the difficulty level of the keys isn’t commensurate with the loot they drop and this makes the game of playing tank not really that fun. Part of this could be how easy it is to stay alive on my warrior (for the most part) versus how much my HP ping-pongs on my prot pally.
From Fortified trash that hits like a truck and can’t be skipped (looking @ you random trash packs in Necrotic Wake with spamming tankbusters, looking @ you 4 casters + lava monster that does a hit that even through ANY form of mitigation, eats me for nearly all my HP in Grim Batol…etc) to Tyrannical bosses spamming tankbusters…it’s too much of a crapshoot and too much of a (as someone else called it) “clencher”. I really wasn’t feeling the nerfs on my prot warrior with the exception that Impending Victory wasn’t healing for jack anymore. But jeez…my Brewmaster and my Prot Pally are PAINFUL to play.
what is not being said here is that M+ trash spam tank buster every 12 second ( anima slash in mist, for exemple) and you can have 2 of those mob in the same pack of trash, and you can have multiple pack of trash with those kind of mob back to back… my defensive CD have cooldowns!
I’m fine with mythic raid bosses buster killing you if you aren’t prepared for it… but mythic ky’vexa will hit you at worst 6 time over 6 minute ( 3 time over 6 minute for the other tank). Grim batol have a tank buster going off every 15 second for the first 20 minute of the dungeon, and they are lethal even on +13 or 14.
This is where group play becomes important, as it should. Yes, we have limited CDs but the group should be helping with externals. However, for +10s no tank should be flopping from proper play even without group externals.
This post is brilliant. No tanks have been screwed over like BDK, BRM, and VDH. We all don’t use shields and don’t boast high armor. Right now it’s almost comical walking into packs and get one shotted. Its the worst on BDK, we wiped on a ship pull on dawn breaker and they key instantly died because I didn’t have CD’s to pull again for 2 minutes. Mind you this was a +12, but this does happen on keys 10-11 as well. One could argue it’s a skill issue, I died, and that’s on me, could have even been the healer who knows… One thing I do know is when I went down the key died and I got blamed for it. One death, one mistake was all it took for me to brick a key but before that death of mine happened 3 deaths were on the dps. In coordinated groups I get it, but in pugs the tank and healer changes are just enough to make you scream. We all agree to a social contract and TOS when signing in and all you have to do is tank or heal a mythic + and you will see every single rule in the book broken and told up to and including kill yourself, never tank again, you are insert word here.
In closing though, the only tanks that are fine are the ones using shields and Druids oddly enough. They can be ok since they can block and/or boast high armor. I think tanks being borderline in kill able in PvE is a necessary evil because of the way the community is and because this mode is puggable. Also healers need love.