M+ pugging

Community General Discussion
1

When looking at joining pug keys in M+, you have a couple of major buckets of options:

  • Play a tank in a key you are at least reasonably geared/scored for. Get an invite.
  • Play a healer in a key you are at least reasonably geared/scored for. Get an invite.
  • Pug into a group that you wildly out-gear and out-score. Get an invite.
  • Pug into a group that is appropriate to your gear/score and is looking for a major utility you provide. In general, this usually means lust or bres, but on some dungeons or weeks it may also mean something like being ranged, having a dispel/soothe/cc, etc. Maybe get an invite.
  • Wade through several hundred declines until eventually logging off.

So lets break some of this down. The first two options come with some limitations… they just aren’t actually options to you unless you play one of several specific classes.

Classes that can Tank
Death Knight
Demon Hunter
Druid
Monk
Paladin
Warrior

Classes that can Heal but can’t also tank
Priest
Shaman
Evoker

Pure DPS
Mage
Hunter
Rogue
Warlock

From the get-go: mages, hunters, rogues, and warlocks have a large penalty when trying to pug in the M+ world… because they are the only 4 classes in the game that can’t tank or heal. These classes have to provide some of the above utility in order to get into pug groups. So let’s break that down a little…

Mage

  • Ranged
  • Lust
  • Dispel
  • Spammable CC

Hunter

  • Ranged
  • Lust
  • Dispel
  • Soothe (short cd)
  • Spammable CC

Rogue

  • Soothe (long cd)

Warlock

  • Ranged
  • Bres
  • Spammable CC

… And suddenly it becomes clear why it feels so difficult to get pug invites as a rogue right now. In the past, shroud was nearly mandatory dungeon utility, and rogues were able to find spots that way. But in the current game, getting a pug invite past 20s to a key you actually want to push feels nearly impossible as a rogue, even in a season where rogues are well-tuned and well-represented at the highest levels of play! There’s just not enough reasons to bring one.

Feels like maybe something needs to change here?

2 Likes
2

There’s rogues, locks, mages, and hunters everywhere in pug keys. You’re just competing against 69 other rogues, locks, mages, and hunters to get accepted.

16 Likes
3

Rogues are still running rampant. Run your own key if you keep getting declined.

Also rogues are the third highest represented dps behind Warlocks and DHs in 25+ keys

So whats happening is:

And why take you when i can take the 480+ 3kio rogue thats farming vault slots?

5 Likes
4

Rogues also generally have the tools to survive dmg, which can be very important.

But yeah, consider making groups or friends. People gonna get cut throat past 20s

5

i recently had a 420 azralon monk in a 13 waycrest. was very solid. +2’d it.
i loved that person. i just wanted to say that.

6

Nearly every game I played this season had a rogue

2 Likes
7

I feel there are a ton of shroud skips this season… Doing DHT with a rogue is so much better than without, you can pretty much skip every bear. Fall has some nice shroud skips, rise has nice shroud skips, in everbloom people often shroud past the abominations etc etc.

Rogues also do good damage, the poison that reduces damage done is very strong, they have alot of strong stops, sap can be used in various ways. They’re probably the most useful non-cr, non-bl class in the game.

The problem is that you’re competing with 3 other rogues and because you don’t bring a cr or bl those slots need to be filled first.

8

I take a rogue to almost all of my runs… they are an S+ tier class right now. There’s just better rogues than you applying probably, so why would a key maker take you?

DH, WW Monk, Rogue are 3 types of DPS that can make or break a key w/ how good they are, but rogue especially. Good rogues can totally shut down the whirly boys in EB that start to 1 shot people and do so many mechanics to CC but also live through a lot + their dmg is insane.

9

The M+ format is the main problem, like you said if you play a healer/tank it’s often pretty easy to join a group.

It’s not like also classes that can tank and heal really want to do those roles as much, many people would rather be able to dps.

The solution at the end like many people have said before is to run your own key or to play with friends/guild.

Maybe if a greater emphasis was done on raids it wouldn’t feel as bad as raids are what the game is balanced on and has a way higher dps ratio.

10

delusional, rogues get instant invites all the time

tonnes of CC, can’t die, even more damage, rogues will usually actually use their kick

1 Like
11

People are just farming crests , if your not tank or heals your not getting in , unless your 2.2k+

12

i hate saying it, but the solution is stop pugging and find a group that does it weekly. pugs are always going to take the dps with highest ilvl and score first. they post the group and let it sit for a minute and they cherry pick who they want to take.

i use my husband’s io score all the time to get invited to higher keys, lol. he’s 3k so it’s an insta-invite.

1 Like
13

Arms warriors would like to have a little chat with you.

2 Likes
14

Ok let’s run this back;
-one of the best ST stun
-Shroud
-Distract
-Mind numbing or Atrophic poison
-AoE soothe on Sin with 2 charges tyvm
-AoE blind (aka aoe stop) uncapped with DR component on a 1m CD
-Magic immunity defensive
-Can survive tank death until brez for full 10s

Tell me you know how rogues work :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like
15

I tried to present this exact same information/argument during the ptr when everyone was guaranteeing me rogue would be in every group. At the time they were grossly overtuned. I told them that as they get pulled back in line, there will be no reason to bring them.

Now don’t get me wrong, rogues are still very well represented in th highest possible keys. But when Steve or Fred gets off work tomorrow to run keys and it’s afflicted week, he’s not grabbing a rogue. He’s basically gonna have to take the first decent tank he sees, because they’re limited as well. So he gets the dh, warrior or dk in queue. There’s a big havoc in queue, and he’d be dumb not to take him. So that’s two spots without dispel. Pretty good chance Steve is a hunter, so there’s 3 people. Hes already in a bad situation.

16

Yep, I just get invited to anything even if I have no gear or rating. :roll_eyes:

17

I can make any class right tomorrow and push even those pure DPS one.

I did last season as BM hunter and did keys. Started 2-5’s then 5-10 then spammed +11-13 a long time till I was geared for higher.

The initiative at the start just needs to be there and it’s easy from there imo.

18

Nope. You just should stop applying to groups you aren’t qualified for.

Rogues have insane damage and bring way more than just soothe.

19

Meaning it’s not a class/spec issue.

20

I think most of the problem is people thinking they can skip the initial grind because they are playing a strong class.

Most people aren’t going to invite your 1200 io alt to 15s. You have to either grind that io up doing every dungeon or have guildies to boost your io.

2 Likes