M+ only player deserves a fair chance for 0.1% title

Community General Discussion
1

All these people complaining that M+ is too easy and should reward lower ilevel gear than Mythic Raid is completely missing the point.

We don’t need to M+ reward to 15 or 18s, scale it all the way up to 25+
If lock out is the issue, fix the lockout issue instead of the ilevel.

M+ 0.1% seasonal title needs to be accessible to M+ only player and not be restricted to Mythic raiders. The disparity between Mythic raiders and M+ only player in this season is up to 20%, we need to address that white elephant in the room.

The M+ 0.1% seasonal title is the End Game for M+ players. It shouldn’t be gate keep behind Mythic raid. For Mythic raid, progression ends when you get CE. While RWF/HOF push is a competitive push, getting CE is not exactly one, it is not a moving goal post. However, for M+ 0.1%, it is a moving goal most, you are competing against others, and in this case Mythic raiders with 20% more power. Now, consider you are also off meta (which is also less of an issue in raid), you are even further behind.

Blizzard please address this issue so that the M+ only players have something to look forward to.

—What is the goal—
Closer balance, less power difference (<3%) between the two, in the context of each content
Mplus only player should not be more than 3% worse than Mythic raiders in Mplus
and vice versa.

— Consider this analogy —
Max rated BG gear drops at significantly higher level than Rated Arena

Consistent right? 10v10 (20m) content giving better gear than 3v3 (6m) content

To compete for highest rank of arena, one should dedicate equal time to compete in highest rank of rated BG as well. (otherwise rated BG is pretty dead)

That is what the current gear disparity is implying. Is that healthy? Hell no

Splitting the gear as I suggested is a compromise that I’m willing to take as a mplus player to not force mythic raiders into farming mplus endlessly. But I would still want mplus players to be able to compete fairly in mplus content without being forced into raid. One piece of OP raid trinket is the worst in that scenario unlike the currently suggested mess of ilvl difference, which surmount to 20% power gap as in SL S4, and even more in DF

6 Likes
2

I don’t think Blizz cares about M+ players tbh.

3 Likes
3

They probably should, its definitely not raiding or pvp that keep this game going strong.

7 Likes
4

You should probably sort any color elephant in the room. Elephants aren’t supposed to be in rooms! Especially those shifty pink ones…

4 Likes
5

Players seem to approve of the pvp heavy vers gear. Maybe the same could be applied to raiding and/or m+?

If they rebalanced mastery and gave all raid gear mastery with raid trinkets providing a large mastery amp it could seperate raid and m+ gear.

I say mastery heavy + mastery amp for raid gear because healers often avoid mastery in m+ because mastery does not provide dps. I think there is less pressure for healers to dps in healer.

A lot of changes plus tuning would have to happen for this to work because many classes do not want mastery but let’s assume mastery is ok, the amp makes it your best stat and using raid gear there is good balance – a lot I know.

1 Like
6

Yeah, it’s questing!

2 Likes
7

They should, or consider though… it’s the only new addition in recent years to the game that has gained traction. Others like… scenario… island expedition… vision of Nzoth… torghast…

2 Likes
8

PvP gear is PvP no matter the form of PvP you engage in (Arena, Battlegrounds, Shuffle, Rated, Random).

PvE gear is PvE gear no matter the form of PvE you engage in (raids, m+, world, old content).

PvE players don’t want to suddenly have activity specific sets. Imagine if PvPers had to buy a totally different set of Conquest gear for Arena and Battlegrounds.

2 Likes
9

They do they just hate them.

10

Agreed. You’re at a pretty severe disadvantage without mythic raiding and I think that’s wrong.

1 Like
11

Those damn purple ones always be getting slick too :sleepy:

2 Likes
12

People have been arguing agaisnt the Pve loot table into different category similar to pvp.

But if the alternative is Mplus loot called way below mythic raid, I would rather mplus loot to behave such that

In Mplus scales up to mythic raid max level for the hardest obtained Mplus gear.
Otherwise, be at whatever current level is.

Mythic raid gear is best in both raid and mplus.
Mplus gear is equivalent to Mythic raid gear in mplus but worse than raid gear in raid (as it is in current design anyway)

13

Splitting M+ and raid would be closer to splitting BG vs Arena than PvE and PvP.

14

Okay now imagine

Max rated BG gear drops at significantly higher level than Rated Arena

Consistent right? 10v10 (20m) content giving better gear than 3v3 (6m) content

To compete for highest rank of arena, one should dedicate equal time to compete in highest rank of rated BG as well. (otherwise rated BG is pretty dead)

That is what the current gear disparity is implying. Is that healthy? Hell no

Splitting the gear as I suggested is a compromise that I’m willing to take as a mplus player to not force mythic raiders into farming mplus endlessly. But I would still want mplus players to be able to compete fairly in mplus content without being forced into raid. One piece of OP raid trinket is the worst in that scenario unlike the currently suggested mess of ilvl difference, which surmount to 20% power gap as in SL S4, and even more in DF

1 Like
15

This whole thing assumes that ilvl is the only thing that matters, and that bonus effects (which historically have about an even split between the 2), are never worth more than the ilvl difference.

Sylv ring was higher ilvl in S2, yet my class didn’t want that because of the stats on it. We also didn’t care about the sylv belt because that was the legendary slot that tier, and the KT trinket was just bad.

IQD (for the specs that used it), was turbo bis until it got nerfed at the start of S4. Getti’ku was turbo bis for strength 2h for basically all of BFA (even better than the n’zoth sword at 10 extra ilvls).

There will always be items from one that are better than anything from the other. As long as they have different itemization, that will be true.

3 Likes
16

Outliers happen but shouldn’t the norm.
Adding ilvl gap between the two widen this gap, and atm tipping in favor of raid by far.

For example, Gavel is already an insane weapon at heroic ilvl. Giving it extra boost to mythic ilvl, that is one tier above mplus max worsen that gap.

1 Like
17

That sounds like you are just against OP items existing in one, but not the other, not actually the ilvl gap.

18

Hey in a year blizzard will fix this, similar to what they did in shadowlands.

19

The new ilevel gap is a global issue across multiple pieces, widening the already existing gap.

Outlier OP items may exist, but I don’t want to delve on the next level problem before solving the basic problem, that is, fundamental ilvl difference.

My goal is clear, mythic plus only player should not perform way worse than mythic raid players in a mythic plus setting. Arbitrarily, I would say less than 3 percent difference. Definitely not the 20 percent difference as we see in S4, and whatever lies ahead.

20

So if M+ rewarded 6 ilvls higher than raid, but raid had all the OP items that had effects worth more than 6 ilvls, that would be ok?

In terms of actual stats, that’s pretty close to where it’s been for most of the expansion. 6 ilvls on about half your slots is about 3% stats, with the difference coming from the effects.

Gavel could be 304, and everyone would still run it because it’s gavel.