Worse, it just raises the progression of the lazy. Now we get people asking for 6-10 keys to be added to the queue. Pushing further away the responsibility of one’s success.
It wouldn’t be an addition to the current system, it would be an additional system alongside the current system. If you want to run M+, that option is still there, if you want to run an LFD version, that option is also there.
You run around +22, but you only really raid regular. Adding M+ with extra gear levels pissed off the mythic raiders and they said the same thing about people like you wanting harder dungeons with better gear as just being lazy. So compared to mythic raiders, or heck even heroic raiders, you’re lazy and want gear easier and quicker.
Just a quick edit: I don’t believe that, I think 22s put you in a very small percentage of players and is quite good, I’m just using that as an example.
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The option isn’t currently there. The M+ system has no automated group finder. Adding an LFD version alongside the current system is changing the current system. Creating something that isn’t already there, even in parallel, is an alteration of the system.
If it weren’t a change, you wouldn’t need to lobby for it. You’d already be getting what you want from the current system. It is because you’re not getting what you want from the current system that you’re proposing a change.
I don’t raid. I try it out some seasons just to remind myself why I hate it.
F em. They think they’re going to have to do 20s because they think they’ll be able to.
Mythic plus end of dungeon loot drops off super hard as of right now and that’ll be no different for those who can get early 20s. Since 20s are 22s now, unlikely they’ll be doing them in week 1-4.
While yes, technically there would be a change to the game, to say that its a change to M+ as it currently stands, is wrong. You know exactly what I’m talking about, can we please stop trying these “gotcha” tactics.
If you’ve got any actual ideas as to why it is or isn’t a good idea, that’d be great. If your only purpose here is to argue over semantics when you know full well the context in which I’m referring to, please go elsewhere.
It’s not a “gotcha” tactic. It’s changing the participation pool of M+ as it stands right now. You want to pretend there is no change because that helps your agenda, but that just isn’t accurate.
I’ve already told you, I’m opposed to the principle of assisting people getting lower effort accommodations for systems that are already working.
Beyond that, it’s not a good idea because automated queues in any content are a bad idea. LFD/LFR have been a cancer in the game since the day they were each implemented. While it’s too late to put them back in the box, at least Blizzard has done a good job of not spreading it into meaningful content.
Automated groups erode community and empower players to treat other players like disposable NPCs. It’s bad for the community and the game overall.
Nah, you’re supposed to make a convincing argument for his idea. Havent you read the forum guidelines?
In all seriousness, what’s your solution to me not having a shard and never raiding?
I’ll bother to say, while I support bumping max gear to 20; making 20’s as difficult as current 23’s is going to be a pretty herculean task for the average player.
I can tolerate being 6ilvl below cap, but I anticipate some subs are going to be lost over that.
The average player is currently in 10s. You could look at the stats. While m+ is very popular, most players aren’t doing 15s, weekly or otherwise. This change will turn m+ from a race to 15 vaults to an actual progressable content. You’re going to get walled at 16/17 and need a few weeks of upgrades to make it past that wall.
And that’s a good thing.
Think about the texture of m+ right now. Even for fairly casual dungeoneers, week 6, your keys become a chore to be done for the weekly vault. There’s 0 incentive to really push or test yourself.
With new tuning/Max level we’ll be able to extend that feeling of meaningful pushes for at least a few more weeks and some people will pick the brackets they like.
Just using myself as an example, it usually takes me 4 weeks to get to current 20 and a couple fore to hit 22 consistently. In that time, I won’t be getting max vaults. I like that
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What community? There hasn’t been a community for M+ ever. There is an LFG that you plonk yourself in and spam join requests for dungeons you’re wanting to do and wait until you get invited, or you make a group in LFG and invite the people requesting to join.
There is no more “community” like there used to be back in van/bc. And while yes, lfd was the driving force of that, opening up the ability to play with other people on different realms widened it, and now with not only cross realm but cross faction grouping, they are the final nail in that coffin.
For my idea? If they want, that’d be great. Against my idea? If they have a genuine one, that’d be great also.
Not wanting a system put in place for reasons other than it would give players other options, that holds no bearing on your ability to play the game isn’t a valid reason. Complaining that it will ruin the community that doesn’t exist is also, a reason, just not a valid one.
that’s weird, i bump into people i know all the time.
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Bumping into people you know in lfg, isn’t a community, its a coincidence.
The days of spamming your trade chat for a tank or healer for an hour are gone. The days of getting blacklisted for groups on your realm because you were a hunter and everything was “hunter loot” are gone. The days of having basically 1 or 2 large guilds control everything on a server are gone. Thats the community these people are referring to.
It wasn’t uncommon for a group of players from a larger guild back in the day to get their nose out of joint because you wouldn’t give them the loot you won, and then they and their entire guild would try to get you blacklisted from other groups. Thats the community these people are referring to.
Nothing you shared are examples of community. All you referenced were toxic cultures created by big guilds.
Which was the “community” these people are referring to. There are proper communities now via discord and other external channels where actual groups get formed for various in-game events. Adding and lfd for scalable dungeons wouldn’t undermine those communities.
It wouldn’t undermine 3rd part communities, but it still doesn’t address the issues we discussed earlier on regarding nerfs to any and all queueable content.
Or raising the bar of mediocrity until the new level where responsibility is required starts seeing campaigns to lift that bar even higher.
You run around +22, but you only really raid regular. Adding M+ with extra gear levels pissed off the mythic raiders and they said the same thing about people like you wanting harder dungeons with better gear as just being lazy. So compared to mythic raiders, or heck even heroic raiders, you’re lazy and want gear easier and quicker.
Just a quick edit: I don’t believe that, I think 22s put you in a very small percentage of players and is quite good, I’m just using that as an example.
This is not comparable. It’s like opening normal up to LFG, and adding a 30% buff to players because pugs are hard. Also, people can teleport from all over the world instead of going to the instance.
I think the problem with M+, and why it’s created this LFD Vs Pre-made debate, is it has almost completely taken over the endgame.
In Season 4, if you want to “solo queue” Raids, the rewards are 265-272, if you want to solo queue Dungeons, Heroics reward 249, which is worse than ZM gear from Season 3.
Players who want to run low keys find themselves up against Valor farming groups, and Valor farmers who have no problem burning someone elses keys if they’re not going to 3 chest it. Lower Keys have really become a toxic environment, something a lot of key pushers never experience.
M+ is a great endgame alternative to Raiding, and it’s nice to see the Rewards being tweaked in DF. But lower keys are where the problem lies for many players who aren’t interested in pushing.
All Blizzard need to do, in some form or another, is keep LFD relevant up to say LFR item levels, THEN have Keystone levels begin.
It could be LFD for Low Keys.
It could be LFD for M0 with it’s own upgrade system.
While there will always be those players who demand LFD for everything, and then cry for nerfs when they cant complete the content (Cata Heroics anyone?), I believe Blizzard could make a massive QOL improvement for many players by simply extending LFD out further before players are required to run keys for progression.
Just my 2c
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Having people need to form groups for content where they will be successful is NOT a bad thing. If people’s first experience is a +10 to fail, then they would hate the system so much more.
Would they?
Is failing a +10 as your first group any better/worse than failing a Normal Raid after doing LFR?
Many players just stay within their comfort zones. Key pusher are doing +15’s in the first week of a season and would likely ignore any LFD dungeons entirely. Likewise, many LFD players would stay in LFD (if it were worthwhile doing) like they do with LFR.
Ultimately it comes down to what individuals define as good/bad in a video game. I suspect a large number of players, who player more games that just WOW, would view match-making (LFD) as a good thing… if not the standard for most online games these days.