The first boss is usually easy. Imagine starting at the end boss.
I know you mean well, OP, but I promise you, if this was a thing the situation would be so substantially worse for casual
Players doing low keys. No skilled player in their right mind would use this “new system “. You would now be waiting in a 20+ minute que as a DPS to ultimately join 4 other players that are under qualified and unskilled. Atleast now, if you wait around a bit a “carry” will eventually que up and make your life easier.
For instance, if you tank low keys currently, you can literally form a group in 60 seconds, and it’s the end of an expansion. Why would you join a random dungeon que when you can hand pick your comp?
No disrespect intended, but this is a lazy idea that will not make life better for anyone on either side of the skill spectrum. Ultimately it will actually hurt those that you are trying to help even more-so then the current system. At least with this system you have your own key to use.
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WHat M+ needs is a LFG and LFM. I’m gearing my duid alt and i’M 267 ilevel with 2 legendaries, 4 tier set bonus, gem in all slot and all enchants. I can’t get invited in 6-7 keys. Tried for one hour with no luck. Doing less than 6-7 is not really worth it. Yes i know i can start my own key but what if i don’t want to. Also sarting your own key don’t change the fact not being able to find a group for a key level you’re properly geared for is simply stupid. It was easier to find a group in the ***** trade chat back in the days than it is now. There should be a way to list myself as wanting to do a key level 7 and then i could go own doing thing while people looking for dps could invite me instead of spending one **** hour in Oribos queuing for keys i’ll never get invited because i hate creating group. The funny thing is i would probably out dps lot of the fail dps getting invited in 10 because they got carried to a better IO then my alt.
This is an interesting perspective.
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Then you’re choosing to get declined for an hour over potentially playing the game.
I’m in a room with a door and a window, I keep trying to squeeze through the window to no avail. I could go through the door, but I don’t want to. Nerf windows.
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I can see your point, but, if they don’t nerf the difficulty, they just remove the timer, and you still get the same amount of gear off the end boss as you normally would as hust a heroic, and then you add in all the affixes at their actual brackets, and don’t let player’s climb to thenext level until they completed the previous (think torghast style) by the time they are doing 10s in the lfd consistently, they’d be more inclined to jump into the M+ system with knowledge and gear.
The timer is what makes M+ fun.
To someone confident, absolutely, to someone new, not really. It can be extremely stressful. Thats why it would be there in the normal M+ , but not there in an lfd version.
That’s why you start to deal with it in +2, and not waltz into a +10.
Your LFD idea just ends up being more loot because people DON’T do it properly. It is a bad idea.
Like how if you port LFD to normal or mythic, you’ll add determination because people don’t have time to waste or just give them a flat out buff.
I’m not sure what you mean by this. How do you mean people end up with more loot because people dont do it properly?
Im also unsure of what you mean in the second paragraph as well.
I’m being genuine, not trying to be rude.
There is a loot penalty if you don’t time. (-3 ilvls or something also maybe an extra item drops, not sure.)
And if extremely slow players use the non-timed system, they’ll get to a +10 (or whatever the limit is) eventually. Is that not what more loot is? Whereas in the same system, they’ll probably be capped at a +4.
Ahh okay I understand now. The item levels would be lower in lfd versus standard M+. So at like 10 in lfd ( the highest you can climb) the item level would be that of like an M+8. Eventually yes, some players would make it to a LFD +10 while struggling to complete a M+4, but I’d imagine bad groups will most likely fall apart before the end. Players will either kick out the person severely dragging them down, or leave the group after a few easily avoidable wipes.
Aside from that, I’m curious as to why so many people, who would never use the system, care if there is another form of progression for other players? Would it reward gear you don’t think they deserve, probably, but a large portion of the strictly raiding community think M+ players get gear they don’t deserve, and that attitude, rightly so is met with a stern piss off.
There is no alternative BUT to use the system if they went through with it. M +2 - 10 , people go through that when expac is new, and that would put a damper on things. Why take penalties if there’s no benefit?
It’s like making leveling extremely long (because that’s fun allegedly.) Since people only do it once per expac.
Difference is, they were somewhat correct. I’m a m+ only guy, 15 was too low to reward mythic items. That’s being changed and all of a sudden, the raiders are still angry. It’s almost as if they are simply angry that raid logging isn’t efficient.
They also have this hard on for protecting the integrity of heroic raiding. Often forgetting its a mid level difficulty they’ve settled with and making that everyone else’s problem.
Most of their nonsense comes down to not wanting to improve raiding in any way while just nerfing everything else. Don’t get me wrong, there’s amount of changes that would make me enjoy raiding, so I generally don’t comment on those threads, but there are a host of people who are under the delusion that a few more tweaks and surely they’ll get into the content they hate.
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Except there is a benefit. You not only get higher levels of gear, you also get more gear if you time.
This seems like the only real argument against an LFD+ system. A hard on to protect the integrity of M+.
There is no benefit to running 2-10 keys in real m+ mode (or however high it goes to.)
Your key is not guaranteed to go up. You get less loot if you fail. You need to deal with a timer for less rewards.
Sure… If you throw out all the presented arguments.
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This doesn’t prevent players from forming their own groups and bringing non-valor farmers who are in the same boat as themselves. Let’s not shift the blame here.
This change would minimize the need for players to run LFR because running LFD is 1) less time consuming and 2) faster to gear up. This would bring the exact issue we have now where +15 keys are so rewarding that anything below Mythic Raid is trivialized.
Not shifting the blame at all.
Are casual players now expected to apply strict R.io criteria to their +5 in order to vet out the toxic valor farmers ready to burn their key?
Do they even know what valor farmers are and that’s the reason players randomly bail on their groups?
This is the problem with M+, it’s supposed to scale infinitely from +2 so players can find their own groove yet the toxicity exists across all key levels… many would argue it’s actually worse in the lower keys due to the Vault.
As for LFD out-rewarding LFR if it were buffed, well yea, that’s the risk. especially now with Tier Sets obtainable outside Raids (which is a good thing).
So again, it’s back to the same problem that’s existed for 3 expansions now. How do we balance infinitely grindable content rewards against weekly locked Raids? Not sure we can.
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