Login for 3 hours - get 4 M+ done - logout - log back in on Tuesday, find 2 rewards in vault, likely 1 to be an upgrade
Login for 3 hours - join a raid - kill a few bosses(unless the raid has been out a while and everyone is geared, you’re unlikely to clear the raid) - you may or may not get an item, and it may or may not be an upgrade - log back in on Tuesday, find a few rewards in vault but likely lower ilvl then you would have gotten if you did M+ instead
M+ reward system is just so rewarding. Running a M+ takes on average 30-45 minutes a dungeon, meaning if you have limited time to play like an hour or less you can login to do a M+ but can’t do a raid.
M+ = faster, better rewards and with the whole Cosmic Flux thing lets you get tier(meaning you don’t even have to raid to get tier)
As long as M+ rewards are so good(especially in vault) your time vs reward tells you that you can ignore the raids entirely, and get better loot and more often by just playing here and there and getting your vault. Saving you the 6-9 hours on average you’d spend in a raid.
Because they over nerfed the raid drop loots. Each boss should drop 4 to 6 pieces not 3.For a 20 man group. Now that doesn’t mean it BIS loot. Nothing fun about clearing a raid a stressful raid for ZERO loot. The experience in itself is not fun on its own dealing with toxic attitudes. Not everyone is toxic but only takes one person to kill a raid group.
So should mythic +15 gear should be lower than heroic raid? or should they drop less? I think m+ gear should drop a set or sets that only work inside m+. You could have multiple for diff dung or affixes. And raid gear could just stay how it is, a tier set.
People always go the route of claiming M+ rewards are too good instead of asking for raid rewards to work in a similar fashion (aka get a mythic option from completing heroic bosses in the vault). I don’t understand why.
yea it be cool, imagine if you get a fire set from a fire dung. So when you go to Mist, you do more aoe damage to trees, but if you use the fire set in a “ice” dungeon you move slower or you take ticking damage. It a cool idea that they can build on, having one of each set gives the group a weird bonus or something.
might be a hot take but i think raiding is fine. it doesn’t need record high participation rates to still be worth the development time.
the bulk of raiders are going to play as long as there is a good new raid that comes out. those that don’t care to raid things while it’s current will eventually have it as part of the legacy farming content loop.
i don’t think the reward structures have much to do with the decline in participation - i think that participation is heavily impacted by how fun the rest of the game is. less people playing, less raiders raiding. it isn’t JUST raiding that is down.
If they took the pvp mindset to raid and m+ gear and let the loot operate at a higher Ilvl in the content it was awarded in, it would solve this issue.
It rewards you in the content you play and allows you to move into another content stream without stomping everything or making it mandatory.
Pvp vers pieces are still amazing for a few tank slots, especially with how easy they are to target single slots outside of the vault.
The m+ loot table is massive and it’s incredibly frustrating to target BiS pieces. I’m still don’t have s3 scale on 3 tanks that have all cleared dps 12-19 in m+. This season alone I’m probably over 50 clears across the toons and have had 2-3 vault rolls on each then for multiple months.
I still see people running for changling from mists too. Or poxstorm from plaguefall.
I agree that M+ hurt raiding…but it’s not the loot pinata part of it, it’s the time commitment.
Most people don’t have 3 to 9 hours a week to sit in front of a computer. In contrast, M+ is fast and can be done whenever you have a few minutes free.
It also doesn’t help that M+ is fast-paced excitement while raiding is very slow and tedious.
I play to complete AOTC with friends. Gear is very much secondary. But I wouldn’t mind if my friends didn’t feel pressured to run M+ for upgrades because they have a similar upgrade path available to them just from raiding.
yeah that’s awesome imo. In addition to specific dungeon bonuses, I would even settle for simple dungeon sets that also have some sort of bonus that works with the seasonal affix too.
in a way, i wish all three pillars had their own armor sets active in their respective modes…(not including trinkets & weapons ofc)
people will find something to complain, game will never be perfect. But with this we could have more cool looking sets, fun bonuses, something to build towards to rather than just hope for BIS. Maybe spice up the M+ affixes if everyone in the group has the sets it gives a cool effect. who knows sounds like there are plenty of possibilities.
I’d be shocked if they didn’t consider this, I’m not sure what the big deal would be aside from balancing issues of multiple sets.
The Ilvl seems like an easy no brainer solution and fix on the outside looking in.
Crafting could be the common slot that maintains Ilvl in all 3 forms of end game loops. Makes it desirable and for those of us that mix max gear sets anyway, allows us to buy a couple crafted pieces or make our own for our primary focus.
I think in this day and age, AOTC wouldn’t really matter because there would just be an addon that shows someone’s clear statistics like raider io does.
with you on that