Is that actually universally hated, even on the forums?
From what I’ve seen, feedback on the forums is mixed on that one.
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No one should be forced to continue playing with a bad group. The more you play, the more you’ll recognize the signs. Some groups just aren’t worth it.
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It is, and has always been, exactly this. And the single parroted point of “elitism” always falls flat.
There’s so much evidence of it that there’s no counter argument.
-Dps not ever, or hardly ever, using personals during an entire run.
-Healers that easily meet the gear check, but are so used to healing brann that they just don’t have the ability to contend with real damage.
-Tanks that think they’re unkillable and pull entire rooms, without being able to handle the threat (or damage output).
And then there’s just the raw numbers. 605+ ilevel people pulling 300-400k overall, which is beyond awful.
I realize that the guise of a sympathy argument beckons positive responses, but it’s just a guise.
Accountability may be lost in most people’s minds these days, but it exists.
Time-attacks are one of the most controversial topics since its first inception back in Mists.
I don’t think they are universally hated, but each side universally hates each other.
Elite players love time-attack. Not so elite players don’t. At all. Not even a little.
And I think there is a valid argument to be made about time-attack and RPG’s not exactly mixing because they promote different styles of play and people.
forums represent not even 1% of the playerbase.
even if there were no timers, people would want to clear as fast as possible to maximize loot/hr or progression/hr.
Pushing an actually difficult key loses all impact if you can do it slowly and wait for cooldowns etc. it’s meant to be a skill and gear check.
removing timers only offsets the gear check to encounter sustain, ie, increase the AE damage to check HPS / EHP.
in other words, the timer being there isn’t any real issue since it’s keyed to how strong your group is. if your group is so strong they’re multi-chesting they don’t really “need” the gear and should be fine in the next tier.
You seem to think the timer will correct m+ but it’s rather irrelevant since the true timer is the meta timer of loot/hr which leads to the same behavior
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Toxic raging tools over deaths are still here as well. (Not saying you btw)
So until people can calm the hell down over a game, People will leave.
This is just saying words.
“People in WoW hate M+ because they’re only 5 players and not 30.”
You have no evidence of this, and I’ve never seen an argument wanting the timer removed.
There’s a reason for it. Keys would be stupid easy to complete if you could lust every pack/boss/had 2-3 min CD’s for them.
It will immediately fix a bunch of the toxicity when people are no longer stressing about every little mistake causing the run to go over.
M0s are super chill. Even on multiple wipes people keep going.
more that elite players understand that even without a timer it’s the same game. even if you could “succeed” timerless at dungeon X+1 you would succeed faster at dungeon X, and since you couldn’t timer X+1 you should be doing X.
A timer is just a definitive “you didn’t succeed” check.
What if you still got loot even for not timering? What argument would those have against it? struggling through X+1 for one piece of gear isn’t better than doing X for 3 pieces.
It’s not the timer, it’s the system of guiding groups doing content they shouldn’t be.
so i’d say it’s not elite players versus not elite, it’s those who don’t mind failure systems in the game to get better versus those with no interest in getting better.
if they did, they would understand that timers aren’t meaningful except checkpoints towards efficiency.
Maybe the forums are a niche community, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the talking points aren’t the same in-game. I often do see people discussing similar topics. I think it’s a pretty easy bet to say most players don’t like timed content.
Oh I agree, I was just oversimplifying the view so I don’t write a novela about it.
I do believe that M+ should retain the timer. And I absolute believe that removing it will do NOTHING to address what people think is the “problem” with M+.
Awakened was amazing. The Torghast sentinels were fun too.
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It would lower the pressure to go-go-go, meaning you don’t make more mistakes.
I’m not in favour of removing the timer completely, but taking it from lower tier mythics makes some sense to me.
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Sounds like you’ve got blinders on as well as those fingers in your ears then.
remove the timer and add a death counter until failure it’s such an easy fix
Not even a little bit. If anything it will make the issue of accepting players into pugs more of a problem because now I will NEVER choose people that won’t want to finish the dungeon in a reasonable time.
Im not about to pug a M+ and run the risk of having one of those: “Let me take a 25 min. Bio real quick” in the middle of a run because we had one wipe.
Maybe an option for timing or not, and then add some goodies for those who beat it timed, but keep the gear the same with or without.
Overplaying the victim card is as bad as being overly toxic.
It’s justifiable to be frustrated at someone who’s ignoring all mechanics.
“Man, I did 1/3rd the dps I should have for my gear. I died 10 times to easily avoidable mechanics, and these toxic players are mad at me!! So toxic!!”
Thats like playing a basketball game, and one players just intentionally starts passing to the other team. You’re one person, ruining the experience for everyone else.
There isn’t a leaver issue.
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If you consider ignoring all mechanics in the dungeon little mistakes I guess what you’re saying makes sense.