you really don’t need to be super intimate with others in a guild though? just sign up for raids, ask people if they want to do keys. that’s legit all there is to it.
Look, this game ain’t worth trying to form relationship solely over the gearing systems that are in a bad shape. Timegate no agency fake progress isn’t worth emotional stress over.
I’m already done with people manipulative over loot and harassing over such.
Keep the buddy buddy social away from the gearing as people are endlessly manipulative over such and it’s already not really worth dealing with a static group over systems that already don’t respect my time and effort
Well that players were leaving anyways , so lets just forward it 
Who said anything about having just 1 group of friends?
Until you get past a certain point, 3rd boss just punishes low damage. Bring 3 DPS who actually do damage, and he just falls over and dies on low keys.
i’d like to just see a new dungeons mode tbh. like a chill mythic+, where you pick keystone levels and do the chill things i mentioned above!
I have like 3-4 really nice trinkets i like to hold on to by the mid-later part of a season, and it would be cool to use them for different things/comps in a dungeon run.
def keep traditional m+, but they’ll have to do something new eventually. delves have a lot of good ideas so i really hope they expand on those.
I think that’s the group that M0 is currently trying to cater to.
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It’s some systems designer doubling down that annoying = meaningful.
They’re panicking trying to avoid the elephant in the room that is the worthless timegate as progress gearing that affords players no real agency isn’t worth dealing with others over. It’s fake progression that has no meaning in its current state.
If I wanted to play for weekly gear loot box and card swipe for some currency to enable usage of crafting sparks I’d play a f2p mobile game.
The devs are too clueless and afraid and I don’t blame them as they won’t win against corporate demanding specific metrics.
Gated progression has a meaning - you have to get better instead of getting even moar gear.
Because the gearing sources are exhausted or take too much time.
as far as im concerned, challengers peril has always been in keys, it just hasnt really shown up as a modifier on the rio page that i know of. as for the “everyone still has something to learn” thats what m0 and the dungeon diary is for, we’re not learning in a +5 key. we’re in there to time it. its why there are videos on youtube to learn.
leaving will always be an issue because there will be people who are incapable of doing what is required in a dungeon and it will throw off an entire key, people dont want to have to reque into a key and have everyone seen they just failed a +4 because nobody else knew what to do.
edit: as a side note, i am a ksm tank, its very easy for me to get into any key right now. i will say when it comes to dps, there are millions of them out there. there is way more competition. If i would put a key together and seen a dps who failed a +4 and one who completed it, i know who i am taking 100%.
believe it or not, grim batol is one of my favorite dungeons. i am one of those rare cats that love every burning crusade and cata dungeon. imo those were the 2 xpacs that had the best dungeons. IMO. dungeons today and since say legion have been trash. again IMO.
and funny enough, i did love brackenhide hallow from df as well. so, maybe im an oddball.
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If I still pugged and the vault was removed I’d just leave any key that gets bricked by some ape. And even in my statics we’d most likely also just decide to bail if it’s not worth it anymore.
If there’s no vault to reward me for staying to the end in a bricked key you can complete it yourself idc anymore.
all the more reason for delves to kill m+ muahahaha
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There is no loot in M+ until the run has been completed. If you leave early, you brick the key and you receive nothing.
Oh right.
Well they should change that and give loot for each boss.
Gonna be honest with you man…
I don’t think you truly realize the severity of some of these groups. Bad tanks, Bad DPS, bad healers. I want to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, especially since it’s still early into s1. But i have had my fair share of frustrations.
Can you imagine…doing 6 Necrotic wakes, and never finish 5 of them? because the tank pulls boss into adds. Pulling too many adds. Not using defensives.
It’s tough as a healer these days. The healing squish, the over tuned bosses, under geared people doing higher than they should content. it’s a mess. You can’t blame people for simply not wanting to deal with the headache of genuinely bad players ruining their experience.
Not to mention…just a few wipes is enough to kill a key right now. And if i am the key holder and i keep getting people like this, i’d say frick it and leave lol…
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i noticed that runs that go relatively well have no quitters 
ngl most of the time someone quits i’m happy they did… because i can now leave too.
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As a healer I will leave the key if the group is making dumb decisions the moment we hop into a dungeon or seeing silly mistakes that cause multiple wipes. Not wasting my time with people who should be learning the dungeons in lower key levels.
If I am dealing with a DPS saying “Why didn’t you heal me!” Well it’s because you didn’t silence the mob and you took a crushing blow dealing upwards of 2 million damage? Ever heard of defensives? Amount of Hunters who don’t turtle is astonishing.
There is so much stupidity that I see in keys you eventually see patterns and know when you should be leaving these groups. Most people who complain about leavers are in fact the people causing issues and expecting others to learn with them.
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Not saying this idea is good or bad but this would introduce a whole new set of issues.
I would be in favor of supporting both timed and untimed m+ gameplay.
Let players push keys up via completion but award no score or something like this.
Side note: you can put completion in description of your key group.
lol that’s brutal……
All I would say after the first couple of packs is thanks for the group have a great day.