I’m going to turn an argument that I’ve heard hardcore raiders use against the “filthy casuals” for years…
Those achievements you get for clearing mythic should be enough to make you happy. I mean, you know that you’re special. Right?
I believe that’s what people like you told everyone else back around wrath. That so long as you could clear raids on normal/10-man difficulty, it should be enough for us that we were capping our characters out months before new content dropped since there was no further path for advancement for us. Meanwhile the 25 man guilds got to clear normal, and then still got to go back for 25-man and had, essentially, access to twice the content and twice the rewards.
So now the shoe is on the other foot. Sucks being told to just deal with it. Doesn’t it?
I know you’re playing devil’s advocate but man, I can guarantee you that most people raid for loot. If mythic didn’t drop any you’d still have guilds like Method obviously, but there would be slim pickings.
You’d probably like them a lot more if you didn’t run them with random folk you PUG. Much like high-end raiding, you’re going to come across all sorts who will expect different levels of skill and have a lower tolerance for mistakes.
Back in the time you described, the most challenging content wasn’t like this at all. Considering M+ is timed, having a more optimized plan of attack to meet the time is better than going in blind. Things have gotten harder and therefor require something extra for you to be successful.
That doesn’t mean you can’t be successful, though. Again, doing things with friends or a guild is a much better way to go about things. You’re less likely to be chewed out for making a mistake when you run with people you know as opposed to randoms.
It takes time to get used to the nuances in M+, especially when it comes down to committing to memory the best strats for each dungeon based on the level and affixes that week. Once you develop that know-how though, it becomes a lot more fun.
M+ made trying to be able to do Heroic dungeons impossible because they’re all ridiculously faceroll easy now and people literally just basically solo them while you try to keep up. I just want to be able to actually do dungeons again without having a timer attached, that’s only a thing at the beginning of an expansion and that’s it.
Everything you say is true. Unfortunately the last few guilds I joined were great people, still friends with some of them, but they were not fantastic players. So constantly timing out on a +3 key and struggling to get halfway through Normal in a raid due to 6 guildie raiders and the rest pugs really killed the idea of guilds for me.
That, and I have an unconventional work schedule so very few guilds would fit what I can do. So I just avoid M+ unless it is a weekly quest and I probably won’t raid anymore because the hassle just hasn’t been worth the payoff. It’s easier for me to just go solo and do what I can do.
Well I mean the raids give great trinkets and still give good gear and semi decent azeite I don’t see the problem, I rarely touch raids cause its boring and its a snore and it seems alot easier then keys in my opinion. I mainly pug my raids but have a group for keys. I think me personally keys are harder especially if you get into climbing past cap because a single mistake can lead into the end of the key, I mean i didn’t know how important kicking trash spells were until our tank got destroyed because we didn’t kick at all. In raids they look amazing but mechanic wise they just seem boring, again I dont raid often mainly for the trinkets because they’re op.
My guild said the same thing. Why the heck are we raiding/heroic raiding just to find our members have better gear from their Mythic Plus dungeon runs.
Dungeons were never supposed to have better loot than raids, and this really hurts the game and the community as a whole. Raiding is a staple of the game since its very foundation.
Fair enough. If all you do is PUG content, then I can see how M+ would affect the player pool you deal with more. That said, I will say that you can find plenty of friendly players who’d be more willing to casually progress keys with you. One of the things I like about keys is that the difficulty is dynamic based on how well you perform.
It may take time, but I’m sure you’ll find some folk you’ll be able to progress with Best of luck.
There’s your problem. The guilds you join aren’t raiding guilds. Not even a little.
Raiding advancement at the guild level is about consistency. And you’ll never get that by pugging.
I’d suggest turning your guild raid into a community if nobody wants to recruit just for raiding. You can invite the pugs to the community if they’re interested in a regular raid and don’t suck. Weed out enough of the trash and you can get a big enough community together to field a full raid full of regulars.
That is when you’ll start to see progress.
Just don’t declare someone as “trash” just because they’re underperforming. A raider is trash when they don’t care. You can always take someone who is pushing out low numbers and teach them how to play/gear them up. But they need to want to get better at the game.
I agree. The game used to have a very set progression curve. Now with m+ thrown in… it’s just all over the place for better or worse. Wouldn’t be surprised to see some mythic raid gear from pet battles in Shadowlands.
Blizzard can and will take back whatever it wants, whenever it wants. Prevalent examples include, but are not limited to, Fel Flame, Totems, Honor Heirlooms, Class Identity, Class Tier Sets, and Flying.
You are useless as a source of feedback if you’re speaking from a viewpoint that outright ignores 99% of players’ feelings about the content they do as “moot”.
Raiding still has a higher cap. The final boss of mythic drops 10 ilvls higher. Sorry if your class can’t use it. Also in order to maintain a key’s level, someone has to do at least 2 runs so you’re piggy backing off of someone. A skilled raid group can get more loot in less time.
Best of luck.