The current M+ system just sucks. The dungeons are overtuned for the ilvl they drop, and even if you time something you only get 2 pieces. Almost nobody is regularly timing keys above 10, essentially meaning nobody is benefiting from grinding M+.
+10s are giving nearly the equivalent of normal mode CN loot, while 15s give loot that is worse than heroic. In BFA, +10s gave heroic quality loot.
I’m at 203 ilvl, why would I spend time in M+ doing 10-15s when it takes several hours of time played to maybe have a chance at one item that may or not be useful?
Why wouldn’t I just grind pvp rating and upgrade the pvp gear that is not only easier to obtain but I have some agency over knowing when and what I’m getting?
I think that most Tyrannical bosses have too much health based on player power and that there are a few trash pulls that are a bit too much damage on fortified weeks but outside that I think they’re mostly fine.
I’m okay with the idea of lowering item level from Mythic+ drops to incentivize the raid groups value; that seems reasonable. But the fact that doing that is conjunction with lowering the number of drops from keys is certainly being felt and I think its a bit extreme.
There will be those who believe if you can’t time a key, it shouldn’t reward loot. I understand your perspective but that argument can only really be made for groups who organized players who know their limits as a collective whole. When you are jumping into someone else’s key or pulling in players to your key, you have no idea if the other person has been carried, is slow to react to certain mechanics, are distracted, or simply having a bad day. It doesn’t take much to deplete a key once you get to a certain threshold.
The entire loot system in Mythic+ is frustrating. You can jump into a key with 4 other players who range from 190 to 200+ and they can’t be bothered to do enough damage to time a +5 or +7 key on Tyrannical, letting the tank beat most of them on every trash pack. This leaves me with a hard choice because I know full well at this point even before the first boss or after it whether the key is dead. Why waste 30-45 of my time for a slim chance at 1 drop?
If you’re a lucky player who has gotten loot regularly, you’d probably stay. But if you’re like me and its a rare occurrence, its a better use of time to just leave and jump into another key. A player’s time has some value and I’d rather not waste my own as well as the others if the key is already sideways 5 - 10 mins into the dungeon.
M plus was org used only for cosmetics and teleports back when it was known as challenge mode.
The mode was liked to the point people wanted item rewards from it to make it more worthwhile to do more than once as such making groups easyer to find vs challenge modes that was quite hard to get a group for.
Removing loot from m plus would kill the mode as like challenge mode finding groups for it would once again become a royal pain. There is no reason to remove loot from m plus the current ilvl from m plus loot is fine for making it content you don’t need to run outside of one a week. If you are a heroic raider you get better gear in the raid while m plus can supplement your gearing if you want but not required. If your a mythic raider after this tier going by normal ilvl gain between tiers you won’t be farming m plus much as the ilvl rewarded will be to low as below heroic and as such around last tiers loot. Save for the one a week for adding to chest that is only on par with the raid slots so a extra option but not required.
Even the cut in m plus loot amount is fine. The problem is the lack of bad luck protection as people remember the bad and repeat drops are likly the lower loot amount feels painfull. A badge system where you could use badges gotten based on key level to buy loot from key levels you have cleared eg in order to buy ilvl 200 gear req an achiv of clearing all 8 at plus 7 would act as bad luck protection without showering people in loot. Removing the main issue with the system the bad rng spells that people remember. You don’t remember the good but the bad.
most People in my circles push keys for io score, not loot. Which is weird because people like myself who focus on m+ as a main form of progression are basing our progress off a third party addon.
same thing happened for raids and world bosses. Blizzard dropped loot rate in general. You are right about reducing m+ end of dungeon loot reward.
still weekly great vault rewards are way better in m+ than raids.
when you do a single +2 mythic (which is very easy now) you get ilvl 200 item in great vault.
but to get a ilevel 200 reward from raids you have to finish 3 normal raids.
It is still very possible but must be more organized. Also for raids even on normal people are looking for achievement. In mythic plus up +2 +3 maybe +4 people are not looking for any achievement or rio score. ilevel is enough to join.
I am a mythic plus player mostly.
Summary: instance end loot favors raids.
great vault loot favors mythic plus.
This doesn’t make any sense… you’re either capped at 184 ilvl or you farm your 550 conquest per week to get a piece or two per week. Either way, you aren’t going to get fully geared in a faster amount of time than you would if you did M+, thus, the purpose of doing M+.
Tottaly agreed, I played 4 mythic + and I dont have that much time and received 0 items, 0 items. I’m playing fury warrior and it’s impossible to get 2 hand weapons without only with lucky. Maybe doing Raid and buying in the Raid NPC’s right, but for me to get enought ilvl i need to change my weapons, and a lot of items, and even with mythic + it’s really hard. Doing pvp it’s a good ideia but you cant buy a weapon with 200 + ilvl because blizzard dont want to let you until we reach the next week. The expansion is very funny but this kind of thing they have to change
Feeling a bit salty today myself. Did a lot of M+ keys… 13s and 14s and not a single piece of upgrade for me, but every other clothie got the 207 pieces that I needed w/ sockets. -_-
That’s 3 bosses, not 3 raids. A full clear of Castle Nathria will net you all 3 great vault options. All the advantages are in the raiding column (vs. M+) this time around. =(
I would argue that the vault is progression. I’m 207i and got a single upgrade item after 15 runs between M11-13 this week (which didn’t move my ilvl score because it was such a minor increase). The M+ vault reward will provide an item that will be significantly higher ilvl and give 3 choices, which pretty much guarantees a strong upgrade choice for multiple slots.
I dont think the dungeons are under/over tuned. They are actually just rightly balanced. As a healer, I really appreciate the work done. By the end of BFA, healing was not needed. The gearing was so op, people knew so much the mechanics that you can spend your time dpsing as a healer. Back to SL, everyone is still learning and you can see weeks over weeks progress. However I do fully agree with the statement on the loot drop. I do only m+ content. Going from a 7 to a 9 or a 10 is a goal. But you cant achieve that goal if your gear is still stuck at lower level. I understand the choice. Slow the progression as much as possible so people spend more time. But this is really the worst potential system possible.
For everyone enjoying frustration, vanilla is available for you. Wow went through so much learning. This is absurd and I am gladly pulling the plug. Ion, you are wining. You are making the game so elitist that you can keep it for you.
SL was so promising on so many level (covenant, game design system,etc). Between the amount of bugs, the maw being a design disaster and Torghast being equally useless and boring, SL is not up to the expectations. Even renown is not rewarding as they are shoving you that through your throat. If BFA was one of the worst xpac, this is getting really close. Pulling the break on the progress is pulling the break on the fun.