M+, Implosion, Demo Tyrant, and haste anti-synergy?

Classes Warlock
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Looking for experienced Demonology Warlocks to help me out with some questions regarding some ability interactions in a Mythic+ environment.

I realize that Demo Lock is more of a meme than Survival Hunter right now, but i’m having a lot of fun with the spec and I’m interested in seeing how far I can push this alt of mine in terms of mythic+. I have been trying to do some research, but a lot of search results come up with really outdated forums and threads.

And yes, I realize the easiest answer to my questions is just: “Play a different spec”. Or “Use a different legendary.” But again, i’m curious and want to try to make this work.

First question: What is the best way to use [Demonic Tyrant] in an AoE scenario? Currently, I’m using [Demonic Tyrant] as a way to hoard up to 9 sets of imps for a large [From the Shadows] > [Implosion] combo once the Tyrant expires. Of course, I make sure to have a decent number of demons first to take advantage of [Demonic Consumption] too. However, since I am also using the [Implosive Potential] legendary, I was wondering if it might be better to implode my imps right after I summon [Demonic Tyrant] so that it benefits from a decent haste steroid? Averaging about +50% haste with good demon setup. I know that Implosion’s direct target damage scales with each Imps remaining energy, but I doubt Implosions damage is increased by Tyrant’s buff. Correct me if i’m wrong.

Second question. What do I do with so much Haste in an AoE setting? One frustrating thing about [Implosive Potential] is that I feel like there is an inherent anti-synergy with Demonology’s ability to gather imps. When I’m pushing over +80% haste, my imps fire off their bolts faster than I can build more imps through [Hand of Gul’dan]. You would think that having a lot of haste would make it easier to gather a few sets of imps, but with enough haste, the my first set of imps end up expiring before I can [Demonbolt] then [Hand of Gul’dan] for a second set. The only solution I can find to fix that anti-synergy is to [Demonic Tyrant] after a juiced up [Implosion], but that would make [Demonic Consumption] absolutely useless… in that case, do I consider using [Nether Portal]?

Thoughts would be gratefully appreciated.

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The only time I use Tyrant in an AoE Scenario falls into two things: Dogs and increasing imp capacity and wait for Carnivorous Stalkers to proc before I use Implosion to go all in. Tyrant does not increase your damage for Implosion. But From The Shadows will as you experienced.

I also recommend getting Wilfreds to use Tyrant to reload your shards rather than bursting a target down. If you have a priority target in a dungeon like Theatre of Pain’s Withering Discharge Mob, have it shoot demonfire to that target to take it down asap.

I usually use Implosion around 6-9 imps, occasionally 12 w/o tyrant. But if you want to save those imps for a more potent implosion, you can use Tyrant.

Since Imps scales proportionally and inversely with your haste, Implosive Potential is not really recommended as it also gives you hindsight problems of running out of mana quickly.

Nether Portal is useless. Period. It may be fun. But it’s not worth giving up Decon ever.

In this case, i’d use Implosion AFTER you summon your Tyrant to give him the Haste bonus.

I recommend giving Wilfred’s Sigil of Superior Summoning a go rather than Implosive Potential. Implosive, while strong on paper, there is a lot of limiting constraints of you having a lot of haste that you and your demons will inherit.

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So the way I see it, Implosion should be used like what was said every 2-3 HoG based on your haste even if your tyrant is out in an aoe situation. Tyrant in aoe is there for your Felguard and dreadstalkers seeing how you are just taking a damage loss by not using implosion and by not using your CDs.

For your second question the only thing that matters at the time of cast for Demonic Tyrant is the health. It can benefit from your haste increase after its summoned so summon then implosion. Someone else might know differently but I have had no issue with this.

Nether Portal is a meme, that is all.

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You may want to keep tyranted imps until the very last second for aoe. Imps aren’t going to fall off during tyrant and it’s better to use 1 gcd to aoe all at once then multiple.

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I’ve been using implosive potential almost exclusively all xpac. I’ve found when using tyrant in a large aoe set up it’s better to implode right after tyrant. I try to set up tyrant with at least 9 imps. The tyrant gains the haste buff and from there I implode with no more than 12 imps. You are correct with the anti synergy with massive haste and imps despawning quick. 12 imp implosions is the sweet spot. The perfect set up is getting a 9 imp implosion then dogs and summon back up to 9 imps then tyrant while the haste buff is still active. The hand once and implode while the haste buff is still up and your tyrant will have the haste buff for his entire duration. The only time I would set up more is in my tyrant on an aoe boss fight like eschelon or the first boss in NW. I’ve had over 200% haste and my tyrant got off 21 demonfires. Th

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You’re looking for Demonic Core procs from your imp expenditures during aoe. That’s your best-case scenario to offset the haste issue.

Unless you’re Necro, Power Siphon is no trade-off for Demonic Calling.

As of tomorrow, I’ll have all major Demo 235 Legos, and I made them in this order:

Forces of the Horned 235
Wilfred’s 235
Grim Inquisitor’s 235
Implosive Potential 235
Balespider’s 235
Demonic Synergy 235

The last one is the one I’ve purposefully been holding off, and that is Synergy (which I’ll 235 upgrade tomorrow). I didn’t want the option to give in to Affliction early on, and it was not an easy thing to do. I was in it to make Demo work for me because that’s the kind of player I’ve come to be 16 years down the road. I rebel at the thought of having to play what is ‘required’, especially when there are options… besides, I’ve always played/performed the underdog specs well above the projected performance profiles.

You hear players swearing by Wilfred’s, but I see Inquisitor’s being the favored 5MM+ legendary.

Demo, and the lego selections, offer up differing playstyles, some having more critical involvement than others, but 5M requires burst potentials on the shortest cd possible, mobility, and shard efficiency, and the spec/lego I’ve been running is the best of those options.

After ilvl 220 the stat allotment can really waver one way or the other and as you know, you’re just kind of stuck with what you end up gearing until you’re not. Crit’s stat weight really starts to shine around that 220 mark, so don’t discount it in favor of stacking mastery, however, haste remains king.

Implosive Potential can get really frenetic, and it’s simply tailored for aoe situations. It’s something to consider during the intermediate ilvl groupings where your team may be struggling to make time on the trash aoe during certain affixes. Ideally you would want to throw it all into mastery and crit there, and talk about amazing!

After writing this I went out and did a 16 key with a group playing while playing with the Implosive lego, and I’ll just say it wasn’t even particularly fun with aoe compared to same gear level played with Grim Inquisitor’s.

You know, blizzard is creating the illusion of options whenever those options don’t provide a semblance of comparison when it comes to the obvious choice.

Blizzard. Stop selling the story without including the truth.

If you’re going to keep doing it this way, you need to prominently state that all the options you’re offering potential buyers are just props to draw them in.

I think everyone deserves the oportunity to make informed choices.

Such as:

“We’re going to design a selection of legendaries, and we’re going to make them all sound really exciting and cool, but we’re only going to make one or two legitimate and the rest just wasted time” “OK… lets go!”

See how easy that is?

Apply the same reasoning to specializations.