They’ve already taken big steps to this. I just want to reaffirm though, their change made stops MORE important, and you’re talking about DH being meta because of their stops, in which are currently MORE important than they were prior.
Worst case they keep nerfing their sigils.
By “fun alternative” you mean “easy mode high level loot farm that invalidated all other gearing methods bar mythic raids” right?
“Playing for fun” is pretty nebulous, it’s a video game the entire thing is for fun lol. It’s no secret mythic+’s history has been potato difficultly for the rewards, with challenging keys not coming until WAY past all rewards except title.
And pretty much all the mythic+ changes were feedback driven, especially affix removal.
TWW broke my retail addiction at least so I’m happy for that. Or maybe it’s mostly me and not the game. Still play classic on and off.
The vitriol from the raiding crowd around this is the primary driver for the changes.
this is all that really matters. keep you on that treadmill so you dont unsub. more money for blizz. thats the end goal. its about milking you for cash for corpo daddy. never forget it.
M+ has become incredibly frustrating, with way too many annoying adds, and you basically have to clear the entire dungeon. There’s no real strategy anymore, and to artificially increase the difficulty, they’ve added tons of things that just make your life harder—like balls dropping, flying from one side to the other, and adds casting tons of spells.
The fun of M+ used to be pulling big packs and blowing everything up with tons of damage, and that’s kind of gone now. And as for loot? It’s terrible. You spend 30-40 minutes for a slim chance of getting an item, whereas something like delv gives you a guaranteed piece of gear in 20 minutes, which is way more efficient for gearing up early on
There are unfun aspects. Like players having to killing a boss they’ve done 15x for a legendary their class is balanced around, for example. I wouldn’t define that as fun in any way.
God forbid anyone has fun in the game (like with delves, they’re fun). Everyone HAS to be miserable like raiders or the game cannot exist
So lets just kill 1000 mobs in a dungeon for % then?
Dont need useless mob padding on a dungeon run it adds nothing to the game.
Well no matter what you’re doing you’re killing things and getting loot. The point is you can describe raid questing world content pvp all in that way. It’s just a dishonest & meaningless argument.
People who have played WoW or played games in general understand there’s nuance and difference between how you engage with these types of content, even if you can reduce them to a fundamental. What they are doing is called being “reductive,” it adds nothing to a conversation.
Agree, im waiting to see loot changes for delves, as they are making LFr/Normal/Heroic raids pointless, and keys from +2-+7 irrelevant in terms of gear upgrades. The only reason to do m+ is to get sac it seems, but even then trinkets normally come from raids but th raid trinkets kinda sucky for what i play xD
This season is chaos
M+ never lost its identity. All content has has constant change, evolution, and upgrades.
For example with uncapped AoE in Legion, you could trivialize some mob packs by just death balling them and AoE stun or stop. Barely anyone interrupted, it was a waste of a button push.
At the start of M+, you could also 3 chest and get more gear. Yes, the community liked both aspects, but there were groups that couldn’t handle it, the people that liked the PvE side of the game, but might not have 2 hours to set aside for raiding. Maybe they only have a half hour, or an hour. If you ran with pugs, and they weren’t going to get 3 chests, you had lesvers, destroying your key.
So daddy Blizzard changed it. This meant you had less leavers. Still had that uncapped AoE, but they changed that going into the next season.
Are you just annoyed we don’t have Legion M+? Or was new and needed iteration. That’s just a fact. You also need to remember that canonically, that was when our characters were at their strongest. Some Artifacts could destroy planets (like destro warlock’s). We used all that power to make sure our World Soul didn’t bleed out. The consequences of that led to BFA.
M+ its supposed to be an end game pillar. Making choices, positioning, and finding out our solidifying what you can handle is perfectly fine and reasonable. Blizzard made changes to M+ for everyone. But no pillar of end game is supposed to just be easy. It’s supposed to challenge you, and you are rewarded based on the risk you took.
Again, M+ will change. Raiding was in other MMOs before WoW, and ran alongside it. PvP’s BG’s got expanded into Rated and Arena. Those didn’t happen over might. M+ will find its niche.
Will I defend everything? No. But with more limited AoE, can that AoE also be more potent against that smaller pack? Ye.
This is just objectively true.
Its also one of those weird things where a certain part of the playerbase acts like M+ is only for tryhards. During both Legion and BFA it was played massively by casual players.
You could still grind out the content if you were bad. Just do the highest ilvl key (which was super easy) and pray for titanforging. If you were good at the game, you could push keys and thus increase ur chance at titanforging whilst having a challenge.
At the same time borrowed power eventually allowed ppl who sucked get to the highest key levels (to get weekly chest). Ilvl just isnt enough due to the nature of Ilvl. Constantly increased difficulty every expansion makes it worse. M+ is basically about gitgud. Gear (power progression) barely matters, unless you are pushing keys (which barely anyone does). Spending time just learning ur AoE rotation and installing a WA that yells at you and tells u what to do would help most bad players more than getting 30 ilvls.
The deterministic grinding of gear is also super zzzzZZZZzzz, just pure snoozefest.
The way Blizzard has managed to make m+ worse every expansion is crazy. So are Blizzard lies. Rotating dungeons to HELP new players roflmao? Ive done these Legion bfa and Shadowlands dugneons for 2 years, how is a new player who comes back to DF supposed to compete with that?
Just make M+ fun again instead of a competitive game for ppl who suck to hard to play actual competitive video games, and thus have to spend their 30s playing a PvE mini-game speedrun gamemode in an MMORPG as their competitive game mode of choice. If I wanted a challenge I just go back playing one of my 5 Dota 2 accounts. Not this pathetic pseudo challenge, which has what looks like 50 year olds competing competitively in the MDI roflmao.
Lastly, whoever is designing all these req interrupts and stuff just needs to be fired. Fire this person, they suck at their job and are objectively making the game worse.
Fractals in GW2 were a thing before m+. It’s fun but not unique to mmos
3 of my item slots bis come from raid. The rest can be gotten at a comparable level and at a higher rate in m+
I’d say it favors hard CC. There are so many things to interrupt that you are better off rotating CC.
Says this
This is strategic gameplay in an MMO?
Extremely out of touch with what the majority of players want. The majority does not want wall to wall obnoxious selfish inconsiderate toxic follow the leader gameplay. The majority doesn’t want a 1 pack approach either which many in the forums make up as an excuse to be disruptive, toxic and selfish. The majority of players in a MMORPG want teamwork gameplay in PUGs, meaning normal, heroic, lfr/n and m+0-5. Common sense proximity pulls based off room design and pack placement while working together. The last thing people want is what we have now, which is 1 obnoxious player who thinks they need to run through 3 rooms, attempting to pull 32 mobs around a corner when in a PUG it’s more efficient to work as a team pulling about 6-12 mobs for 3 or 4 groupings.
Yes they do. They really, really, REALLY do.
Go look at FF14. Wall-to-wall is the norm when possible. In fact, FFXIV had a similar problem where devs saw the popular wall-to-wall strats and has tried to clamp down, so people prefer to avoid doing certain dungeons that have enforced pull sizes for their tombstones.
Why do you think Diablo 4 is so popular? People love doing big pulls. They just do, they literally actually just do. They love big pulls.
except when they dont
the world is big and youre in a small pond. act like it.