M+ feels garbage this season

Yeah and this is nice. It still requires you to work through m+ keys though and with pugs there is the expectation you will time it or people often leave. Very unpleasant for many players.

Imagine being on the last boss of City of Threads and getting the root / having to stack at the same time that all the orbs begin to hurtle towards the boss. Sound fun? Especially when the boss one-shots the group when it gets orbs.

Honestly, all people need to do is look at what keys the majority of people enjoy most. It is almost always the keys that feel easier. That should be where Bliz aim. If most players enjoyed being put under intense stress and pressure, then surely people would be talking about how much they enjoy the harder keys and affixes that brick keys.

Make keys 14+ insane. Let people who like intense challenges can enjoy themselves in keys 15+ and leave the majority of the wow population to enjoy themselves too.

Totally agree.

I think it would help remove stress and the bad attitude it causes.

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I’m pretty sure everyone does.

Even those that insist otherwise.

“I’m glad S1 of TWW is so difficult!”

pulls smiling mask down over tears

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It wouldn’t, it would be the exact same as it is now. No one is going to want to spend an hour or more in a dungeon because there is no timer so people can go as slow as they want. You already have that option in game now , you’re mainly just missing out on the io increase.

And also, people are worried about this kick trend lately, with no timer they would probably allow replacements like H dungeons, so kicks would probably become more frequent to get better heals, dps etc.

This is a very limited view of the situation. It’s about so much more than just io.

So many of this expansion’s changes have exacerbated the worst elements of m+ for many players. Small errors brick a key, far more so than before because of the timer penalty. Some of the affixes are completely terrible on some bosses if they come at the wrong time. People leave. Rewards for completing it deplete. As a result, people are far more picky about who they take, healers and tanks find it far more stressful, and the atmosphere in keys is shifted towards being far more toxic.

Rating io is not that important to me. Sitting in Dornogal for 1 hour trying to wait for a healer or tank to sign up for my key when I only have a few hours one night a week to do m+ feels like absolute garbage.

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Which is literally the reason they were designed to scale.

Here’s the problem, the thing people argue, of wanting things to be easier, exists in game.

For some people that’s a 2, some a 4 or 6, others an 8 or 10’s and higher.

All of these statements come off as “entitlement” rather than valid criticism. When people say “9’s are too hard,” they’re not. They’re appropriate for what a 9 should be. They may be for you based on skill/item level, but in 615+ item level, 9’s are not some insane, end game challenge.

After people were arguing that crests being gated behind 9’s was “what was holding them back,” I was done.

615 item level is far and away more than enough for 9’s. If you couldn’t complete them in that gear, 5-7 more item level is not going to be the difference.

If you were having trouble with 9’s in that gear, it was not gear. Whether it be pugs, not doing mechanics, parsing terribly, whatever, gear is not what was gating you.

Really depends though doesn’t it?

If your group is a few seconds or a minute off of timing it then collectively that kind of ilvl bump could make a huge difference.

The difference between wasting my time on ?? Zekvir and getting it down was 5 ilvls so idk.

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Sure but we don’t take one-offs as gospel when making arguments.

You can always find niche circumstances where it may have made the difference, but I’d wager 99% of the time, being undergeared wasn’t the thing that made or broke the run.

And this is of course evident by the fact that people in less 610 (not just MDI players) were timing 10’s.

Hell, I’m no god player or anything, but we timed our first 9 when we were some 609-611 item level in our group. And yeah there are variables there where it wasn’t a pug and such, but it’s doable.

The point being, 615+ item level is more than sufficient to bring the damage needed. If you didn’t time your 9 in that gear score, it was either a mechanical or performance issue.

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That’s generally the case in pugs but even when it comes to having a heel in the group ilvl is still the greatest equalizer in the game.

You missed my main point. Time is extremely precious, particularly for people who don’t have the time to practise lots of m+. You believe that top tier gear should be locked behind difficulty. I believe it should be obtainable if someone is willing to invest time, even if their skill is not as good (or, as I stated, they simply don’t have the time to practise as much). There is our fundamental difference.

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Yeah but what im trying to say is, if the group is truly struggling that mechanically, or if the players are just “bad” at their classes, they likely wouldn’t have timed it if they were 620-622 as opposed to 615-617.

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M+ has always been garbage. I’m so happy Delves exist so I don’t have to deal with anyones stupidity besides my own.

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Fair enough and won’t press the argument further.

I absolutely agree, but those people are likely only doing that content because it feels required to unlock mythic vault track. If gear capped out at heroic, this wouldn’t be an issue.

Edit: A good question is, how many people would push to +10 if you could get the best item track gear from a +4? And, for many people, how much more would they enjoy running dungeons around +4?

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So do you feel forced to raid and pvp and do dailies every day too?

And I’ll even give you the benefit, I’m 626, and I’ve failed 9’s in pugs with the lowest geared person being like 622. People not interrupting, doing mechanics, etc.

We VASTLY out geared it, geared enough to do 14’s+. Sometimes it just ain’t meant to be.

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This is ultimately what we all need to be more accepting of I think.

It really isn’t meant to be some times and it’s perfectly fine to walk away and try again.

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I feel at a massive disadvantage for not raiding mythic, yes.

Personally, I don’t think it would make any difference, per my example some of my pugs.

I’ve failed 9’a pugging where the average group item level is 624.”

Mechanics are infinitely more important than gear. Obviously, gear matters to a degree though. You shouldn’t be doing 10’s in 590-600, you gonna get one shot by unavoidables.

But a group of 624+ should be able to roll through a 9 if it’s played properly, only to fail the key and see that 3 people in the group had 1-2 interrupts until the group fell apart.

It’s an accountability thing. Very, very few people will ever admit “I screwed up,” and will just default to blaming external issues that “weren’t in their control.” Meanwhile dying with several personals up.

And more importantly try to grow from the experience if you contribute to the failure.

The “it ain’t meant to be” thing really only applies if you were doing all you could, but members of the group weren’t.

A personal example is I am terrible at putting curse of tongues on casters, and I absolutely should. I run OBS on most of my keys, and go back and watch to see how I can improve.

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