Ok but of the available options its the most popular one, no?
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Wouldnât that be raiding? The raids are what made this game popular, not grinding the same 8 5 mans over and over again.
Make the fun to pressure ratio go back into the acceptable zone again. Currently itâs not even close, itâs an actual chore to run keys.
I had fun running keys at p much all levels in DF seasons 1-3. Some dungeons sucked, but it was still a good experience overall and fun no matter if it was some crusty alts in the âdead zoneâ of 2-10 or trying to see whatâs above 20. It was just pleasant to run them.
The groups I run them with didnât really change much but the dungeon pool and overall tuning just makes it not fun at all for me and my friends, so we just donât run them outside of getting the vault done and play other games instead.
Which I really suggest to anyone struggling to find fun in the current season as well.
4 Likes
- That is by design. Blizzard didnât design m+ out of a good state by accident.
- When you consider the fact of point 1., you can see why the rest of this is moot to blizz.
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From my limited experience with Blizzard (Legion+) they are absolutely 100% capable of designing them out of the âgood stateâ by accident due to mismanaging the tuning and changes and then getting all stubborn yeah nah and refusing to fix it.
Their QA sucks, their leads and management are incredibly stubborn with their decisions no matter how stupid they might be.
So yeah I 100% believe they fâd it up on accident and are now stubbornly refusing to make it fun again because they know best.
10 Likes
Maybe? Still, thatâs not the majority of the playerbase.
Its the majority of the player base who spends money on Wow Tokens for pots, flasks, and Whetstones/oils. If people stop playing the most popular mode it could mean a financial hit for Blizzard.
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The majority of the playerbase doesnât do this.
Youâre off on another planet. Until you come back to Earth, cheers.
If itâs actually true that more and more people disregard m+ their metrics will take a hit and theyâll be forced to fix it, which they will by kneejerk nerfing everything to the ground and making it too easy and pleasing nobody.
They have reference data from Dragonflight seasons and honestly all the seasons before that and they refuse to use it to tune things right.
4 Likes
I think this was all intentional. I think a lot of players were solely just using M+ as their primary end game mode, and I think Blizzard is trying to get people to engage with other content.
When M+ really starting to get steam in late Legion and on into BFA, it pretty much killed the rest of the endgame as far as participation went.
Blizzard invests a ton of resources into raids, and more and more players were opting out of them to just farm M+, which just offered easier gearing.
I started reading Jason Schriereâs new book, and I think M+ would have never even come into existence if it werenât for Bobby Kotick pushing Blizzard to implement e-sports everywhere they could.
I think now that he is gone, the team now has the freedom to do what they want with the game now. I think they are trying to either phase M+ out completely, or make it so grueling, that only the most hardcore players will stick with it.
I think Delves are an experiment to see if this type of content would work in the game. If they pan out, they might just start focusing on Delves more, and slowly just let M+ fall to the way side.
I cannot emphasize this enough, that the popularity of M+ is so so overstated on these forums. The fact that people are wanting easy keys back kind of shows that most WoW players donât care about challenging content. They just want content that provides a small amount of challenge.
I think M+ should get rid of the timers, and just have dungeons have 3-5 levels of difficulty. Start desiging them like raids, instead of AOE trash hallways on a timer.
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Ok, granting that what youâve said is true than why do you think Blizzard would intentionally do this?
What makes you think this is the most popular activity?
Do you have data that shows that M+ retained subs?
Miss one kick, someone dies, or you wipe.
Stand in one vague swirl, you get hit for 6 million.
Every dungeon, every pack.
Iâm just tired. I want to just have fun doing 10s or 12s with my friends, but we donât have some giga âmetaâ godcomp to deal with this crap.
I donât care about being âgoodâ at this game anymore. None of my friends do. Itâs too hard. Itâs too annoying.
I just donât care anymore. 
15 Likes
M+ consistency has always been a problem from from season to season, whether it is the difficulty not being consistent or the gearing/crests/vault rewards not being consistent. Blizzard keeps iterating and trying to reinvent the wheel. They will never just land on something, and they will never get the tuning just right it feels like.
I think the M+ squish really affected a lot of people. Instead of any sense of progressing, you just hit a wall sooner and feel bad at the game. Once the new expansion feeling wears off, a lot of people will quit and M+ retention will go way down.
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M+ was also fun and less binding than raids. Thatâs itâs biggest pull for my friends and I, we either went for some easy blasting in lower keys or tried to push higher to see what the limit is.
If it dominated the endgame participation then they should be happy with it, raids still got done and people still enjoyed it. Many people just run with pugs in normal/heroic because itâs fun and not because of vault slots or the scarce drops.
I run delves even though I donât need anything from them because theyâre fun, I run raids because normal and heroic is fun for me, if things stop being fun Iâll just not play this game and do something else.
I donât know if itâs reasonable but I believe many, many other people engage with WoW in a similar way.
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It seems pretty obvious - Before delves you either have long form raids that take hours to complete and require 10 to 25 people to be there at once or world content to progress gear. The only other option is running Mythic dungeons which take 30 to 40 minutes and you can do with less people, also there is a score incentive that causes a lot of people to keep pushing.
Delves are a pressure valve for this in many ways but you still have the score attached to the mode and that, in a major way, grants you access to other endgame modes. A big part of wow is being able to be invited to the table to play harder content, especially for new players.
What? I mentioned their metrics and not subs. Metrics are not subs. Itâs how they evaluate player engagement, it includes % participation in content and MAUâs among other things. Itâs how you quantify what people do and what they avoid doing in the game.
Please read and understand words.
Personally, I think M+ causes massive burnout. I get that there is a segment of players that want systems in the game that give them ways to grind character progression 24/7, but I think many players left the game due to M+ almost being mandatory.
I get that some people hate raiding, but I donât think WoW was built to support small 5 man end game content, or at least designed well for it.
Certainly, but itâd be a longshot to think they were oblivious to the feedback, the foreboding. I guess thatâs what I mean is when you see the writing on the wall and still go through with your decisions with minimal deviation from the plan if any at all, thatâs not by accident in my opinion.
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Feels fine to me just not a lot of keys going.