The whole point of an mmorpg is to get items and become stronger =)
I don’t see any problem here.
ofc people want to get gear!
And I told this before, it doesn’t matter if you give the average people all the items they need, they will still be bad pressing buttons. So, it doesn’t matter at all. You want to be different from all those people? I think there should be cosmetic/title rewards for higher keys. So everyone can be happy.
And challenger’s peril gotta go. if it was 13+ affix I’d be ok with it, but as its current state a plain nope.
IMO the dungeon pool is just really boring and unsatisfying. I love the SL dungeons, but everything else is either ew or meh. I think it’s pretty clear that whoever designed most of the TWW dungeons did so with RP in mind.
Infinite to farm? You know the gear is capped at 554 unless you use a key which are timegated, yes?
Blizzard changed the structure of keys in DF S4, removing the bottom 10 key levels. While they also put the gear that used to come from levels into other places and added delves, players who were used to a +2 being barely harder than a heroic dungeon aren’t prepared for the new state of keys.
Players would rush through content far before M+ was in the game. The idea that there is an official timer, that is optional in terms of completing and getting gear, is the source of all toxicity, seems misguided at best.
Yes, we would lose something - the timer imposes restrictions on teams who want to progress to force them to maximize their resources. Waiting for lust every pull is a somewhat far-fetched doom scenario people bring up that I don’t really care much about. But waiting 20-30 seconds before most major pulls for some CDs to come up significantly changes the nature of the challenge of M+. And it would be far less enjoyable for me.
The timer has nothing to do with players raging at healers who didn’t save them from a mechanic they should have avoided.
The source of the toxicity comes from mismatched expectations within groups. The timer is one area people can disagree on to lead to toxicity; but this idea that absolutely nothing else in M+ can be the source of toxicity is laughable.
The existence of players who only run M+ for gear does not show “barely anybody” enjoyed M+. You can’t possibly prove this position, and the only data we do have that would glean some light shows there are people who DO in fact enjoy M+ for more than gear. Just because your friends who are going to be subject to self-selection biases don’t like M+ doesn’t mean the majority doesn’t like M+.
Saying the game mode that was designed with a timer would be pointless without a timer does not say anything about the rest of the content. This is such a bad faith comparison, even for you.
I don’t know about the majority but everyone I play with never even bothered to do a single M+ ever. 5 man dungeons turned into a D3 greater rift rip off doesn’t sound like fun.
mythic plus is fine . how about if the pug player base stoped for a moment and learned how to play the game instead of joining groups with prayer and dreams
Not a bad faith argument. I’m pointing out that we can have hard dungeons without a timer, because most of the game doesn’t operate like that.
You got a huge bug up your butt over people criticizing M+. The truth is, M+ has drastically shaped WoW into a completely different game than it was, and it hasn’t been for the better.
All for what? M+ didn’t bring more dungeon content to the game, all it did was take an existing system in turned it into almost a mandatory grind each week. On top of that, M+ has brought an immense amount of stress and toxicity to an activity that was once a cornerstone for casual players. The M+ culture has trickled down into normal, heroics and even leveling dungeons.
It was a dumb system to implement, and I think it has been slowly killing this game since its implementation. The leaked sub graphs show that M+ hasn’t changed player sub habits, if anything, we see faster drops in player population just a few months into expansions.
Without Classic population in those graphs, I think things probably would look even more bleak.
You retail players can’t see what is happening to WoW at all, you only see the game through your WoW goggles. The game has been losing it’s casual player base, mainly because the end game has become a toxic cesspit of competitive players.
I’ve been playing MMOs for a long time, and I will stand by my long-standing position that M+ is going to be the death of this game.
You’re wrong about this. This only happened at the end of expansions when people were super geared up. So tired of you using this as your go-to excuse for timers in M+.
You are like the poster boy for M+ defenders on these forums, just an endless wall of misinformed excuses.
Personally it really hurts with the squish. I am seeing people say “its a +4 it shouldn’t need X ilvl or X dps” when the major reason we are failing boss fights is DPS check issues most the time. When you get the DPS its then a pathing issue most times, the amount of keys i see messed up because tanks aren’t learning paths in earlier keys because they go from 2 to 4 so fast then with the added difficulty (health sponge) and weekly affix we just aren’t timing due to poor management of pulls.
Which again. Is something that should be learned over time which use to be something tanks would do on their journey from +2 to +10. Now with the squish there is less room to learn because people just think they should jump into the next highest which is 3 or 4 without actually putting in time to learn the dungeons.
So to match up with the harder to know what ilvl to be, being unable to judge the skill level of players and the lack of dungeon keys to learn in it just makes this large mess. Because you say in guild or PUG group +4 and they just think “oh this is just like the old plus 4, should be cake walk” but they just can’t put up the numbers (healing, mitigation or DPS) and end up leaving the group embarrassed.
The player base on the other hand is the main problem with any and every form of content in this game. I cannot stress just how much of a pathetic excuse for humanity this community is.
Details tracks everything, including interrupts and crowd control.
And the second I see someone whining about “healer!!!??!!” or anything like that, I immediately check those details.
100% of the time, it’s a dps who had 80% less kicks/crowd control than everyone else in there.
Most players are just god awful, and delves helped artificially inflate their item levels to make them seem like more appealing invites than they actually are.
That, and the sleuth of meta chasers that are terrible because they swap mains every time patch notes drop.