M+ changes in DF are bad


+2 is not impacted at all.

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That doesn’t make any sense, +2-10 is the same scaling as Shadowlands. Sure they could make the “base” dungeon harder, but we dont have any indication of that happening.

Perhaps they have changed their original plan, which I saw commented on a week or two ago. But everyone was saying that gear would be worse and dungeon difficulty would be relatively harder at low key levels than at high key levels.

I actually saw people in this forum saying that “It will be good if it hits low key entry level players much harder than me.” /shrug

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That’s good advice.

But that wasn’t what I meant. What I was saying was that a few more ilvl’s of gear always makes a difference. Something that might have killed you could almost kill you. Something that you almost salvaged as a healer? Few more ilvl’s of gear might have done that. Same with the dps. A little bit more dps and you might have timed a key.

I think that they will make changes later on and adjust stuff. Like he said, it changes at +11’s but we’ll see how it goes. I think that they are making it hard and then to pacify people, they will make it easier later on lol

Meaning, they probably want to up the difficulty level. But they have a bottom line and they’ve gone beyond that just so that they can reduce it later to make people happier.


I suspect that will be the case. PVE always gets nerfs.

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I literally quoted you the original post.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they do a repeat of SL S1. Make things suck for more people and then backtrack to garner the “see we’re listening!” attention.


Yeah, come back in S3 lol

Maybe the mounts and rewards would look better too. I liked the Season 3 and 4 mount better. But that’s personal aesthetics.

Yep, but all I seen was my friends list go vacant, last logged on over a year.


This is a thing that I am worried about too. If my friends don’t play it then I’d probably not want to either.


The issue is that they make changes too late. People who quit are likely not to come back. Experimenting on the playerbase rather than doing research to see what will be acceptable to different demographics of paying customers has failed repeatedly.


No because currently in a 10 boss raid the first boss drops the same as the next 7 bosses. They have changed that. So if you want to draw a comparison you should use an average of all but the last two bossed which would be 417 and that would be an 18 not a 16. And depending on scaling that could be like doing a 19-20 for the same reward you get from a 15 now.

Additionally EOD loot has the same nerfs applied. This isnt a buff.


Its unfortunate. The main problem is lacking creativity in my opinion. If they really had good content, it won’t be an issue.


Good, it shouldn’t be so easy to get gear equivalent to mid level mythic bosses. Doing a +16 for the same reward as the first 3 is more than fair.


It never was an average. It always was the baseline. You guys are trying to rewrite history at this point. You’re looking to be outraged about a loot buff by turning it into a loot nerf.

If you’re on Humanbeak’s side, a guy who’s as infamous as the Tuls for trolling GD, ask yourself the hard questions.

The baseline would be all but the last two bosses as has been the case historically. The only one rewriting history here is someone claiming that there has always been more than two tiers to raid loot and then trying to draw a comparison of two different systems using an arbitrary metric (In this case the first boss of an raid which has always dropped the same as all but the last two bosses) in order to call it a buff.


And now it’s 4 out of 8. It’s been 4 of 13 once at some point. It’s variable. But the constant is that for M+, it’s always been the baseline ilvl from Mythic raid and that isn’t changing in DF barring the +1 on the key level, bumping it up to 16 from 15.

I never made such a claim. There has however been more than 2 tiers before, this is not new in Vault. HFC had even more. 4 different ilvl tiers over 13 bosses. A crazy raid that was.

It is a buff. It’s the first time ever in the history of M+ where M+ end of week chest will drop higher than the baseline Mythic ilvl.

That’s a fact. Period.

You can kick and scream all you want, it’s happening, and it’s great that it is.

Hard questions?


Anyone that has a different opinion of Raiimir are bad people