Heroic is, by design, intended to be cleared with normal Aberrus gear and 4pc at 420~430 ilvl or Heroic/Mythic Vault gear. Similarly, Normal is intended to be easily cleared by people with normal Vault and catchup gear as 400~410 ilvl is more than enough for it. While Mythic Aberrus is intended to be cleared at 430+ ilvl.
Though gear scaling is weird now because Normal raid can get you gear that M+ can upgrade to 437, Heroic Raid being able to go further to 441, and Mythic raid only getting you 441~450 depending on the boss and even LFR drops gear that is better than some things from the best S1 gear after upgrades.
I’m currently in a casual guild that is progressing through heroic now, they just hit the wall that is Zskarn this week while 4~6 of the raiders do M+ or pug on the side to improve the chances for loot/great vault rewards/upgrades while the others tend to only log on for raid so I’m well aware of the experience.
Higher than that, there are only a little over 300 kills on Rashok and almost all of them are almost or over 440 raid-wide ilvl.
And that’s only the 5th boss.
People aren’t getting that kind of gear from farming the 4 previous bosses.
Is mostly thanks to the upgrade and crafting system, being able to upgrade normal tier/trinkets is huge for raid gearing.
I would say this tier is the least use I had for m+; I only have a neck, cloak and weapons(I also have 2 441 from raid) on my monk.
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…Yea and if you mostly just want to do M+, you’re still forced to raid, unless you want to fall dramatically behind on tier sets, which are a massive boon to dps/healing…or unless you’re absurdly lucky out of vault. “RaIdInG Is BeSt CoNtEnT AnD ShOoLd Haf BeSt ReWaRdS” argument is asinine, and the big reason that raids have some of the absolute giga BIS trinkets and tier gear, but M+ players still have to deal with it. Suck it up.
this is the point. M+ born as challange mode back on pandaria. was a GAME MODE not a END GAME SYSTEM.
and its because of people like you that blizzard changes m+ rewards system and you still cry about it
Why does M+ get a huge ilevel boost to gear in vault vs what drops, while raiders get same ilevel.
Makes no sense. Mythic raid vault rewards should all be 447.
That is the biggest reason raiders must run keys, most of BIS is from M+ vault
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By the time you get geared to start mythic past second boss, the season is already over. Gearing up only from raid drops + vault) is slow and at some times hurtful - farmed heroic Jaythis for 3 months. Played this way in all seasons in SL (can get maybe aotc by the end of it and that’s it) but that whole thing happens in the span of a season. Comparing it now with DF S2, whole thing happened in 3 weeks because of loot. When you actually get loot, the game is fun. Got loot first week, second week some upgrades, third week pushed aotc, KSM and already waiting for mythic to drop for LFG. The difference, doing dungeons.
Should have stayed a game mode, a gimmick to keep the no lifers busy.
To be fair it is possible to know about something without playing yourself. I disagree with his takes but I don’t think you have to play to pass judgment if you’ve done your research (I don’t know if he has though).
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This isn’t remotely true. Your dishonesty prevents your argument from being effective. It’ll pull in plenty of likes from raid loggers though.
There isn’t infinite time for infinite drops. There is a very finite amount of time each season, week, and day.
Further this ignores the reality of the game and gearing. Raid drops tier, and mostly better trinkets and weapons. It takes longer to finish a single key, even 3 chesting the key, than it does to clear trash and kill a single raid boss.
If raid didn’t have a lockout you would be able to easily double the drops of M+ in the same time or less. If M+ was locked to 1 dungeon per week, M+ would be a much larger time investment than raid for gearing.
M+ is only more rewarding for limited gear ranges, limited progression ranges, and only for those who invest vastly more time. You are correct that there isn’t an obvious hardcap on M+ rewards like there is on raid rewards. Blizz relies on M+’s greater time investment per reward, as well as worse BiS options to pseudo balance it. It would be more balanced if they split the gear scaling as with PVP.
In this age people abandon any attempt at objectivity. They act as politicians running for office, they manipulate, distort, lie and ignore anything that counters the narrative they wish to create.