And that happens in 15’s as well. The number doesn’t matter, it’s a treadmill, any sufficiently advanced set of gear will make an instance trivial. And any sufficient lack of gear will make it difficult.
But, lets say I go and collect the data for 20’s
What do you think will be different?
Do you think the specs will suddenly be balanced?
And when we get the exact same results in relative power what will the argument be then?
Not the same and the fact you don’t get this shows you don’t even understand the concepts you’re arguing. Mobs in a 15 have less than HALF the health that a 25 has. No matter how good you are and how many they pull they’ll die before a feral can come close to their potential.
I’m a scrub, but I don’t get this logic on trash. Don’t feral dots tick for same amount per second and don’t get stronger just because you put a full five combo point dot on them.
Therefore on less health trash you’d hit like a two combo point rip instead of a 5 and funnel your bites on single targets. Isn’t this the same rotation regardless of health pool?
I get how the amount pulled matters, but don’t see how the health of the mob makes feral DPS better.
Real question BTW as a part time feral on low keys.
They take time to tick. A feral doing 5 point rips would get dumpstered in a 15 because the trash would die before it ticked, unless the other dps was asleep. In a 15 trash dies before my Hunter gets a second aimed shot off, that’s a 2.1 second cast. Or before my UH dk even gets his ghouls out.
In a 25 it wouldn’t.
If it’s the same damage per tick the wouldn’t you just not do 5 combo point rips on trash? And do like 2 combo point rips and funnel bites? Wouldn’t the circle leggo also help?
Lastly if dots are the problem why isn’t shadow priest suffering as badly on low keys?
Maybe I’m focusing on the AOE talented dot and not taking into account the other two as much as I should.
Poor cats, always get sent to the litter box.
That’s the point. They can’t do their most damaging rotation because trash doesn’t live long enough for it to work. To go back to my earlier example, because I can’t get another Aimed shot off I instead will try to get a kill shot off and then arcane whatever survived.
Thats a lot less damage then bouncing another aimed off 5 targets.
Oh, look! I think I can pull somewhat close to those numbers as demo, does that mean I’m finally gittin’ gud?
OK what is it I don’t get?
Say I look at the data from 20’s
What do you think will be different?
Do you think the specs will suddenly be balanced?
And when we get the exact same results in relative power what will the argument be then?
Oh, looks like the argument is “I don’t get it.”
And for that matter, what exactly do you think the concepts that I’m arguing are?
So ferals would be ideal for higher keys? Since the mobs have double health and last longer for ferals monumental bleed damage?
LOL.
No feral would be better in higher keys than they are in 15s, but again offer no real utility to earn one of only dps 3 slots and those seeking to push as far as they can will never pick a feral.
Two stuns, battle rez, battle healing, interrupt, typhoon for kiting, soothe.
And the data from 20’s for this week for monk and feral.
| Spec | 25th Avg | % | DOS | HoA | MoTS | NW | PF | SD | SoA | ToP |
| -------------------------- | ---------: | —: | -----------: | ---------: | ---------: | ---------: | ---------: | ---------: | ---------: | ---------: | ---------: |
| Windwalker | 10,130 | 100 | 10,502 | 11,119 | 11,070 | 11,610 | 8,498| 11,325 | 8,512 | 8,411|
| Feral | 7406 | 70 | 7,177 | 7,754 | 8,201 | 7,989 | 6,681 | 7,752 | 6,730 | 6,967 |
Dropped to doing 70% of monks damage from 72. That is better.
Odd how the trends seem the same at 20.
It might not be the utility, but the DPS.
None of that utility is unique. Ferals stuns are flatly inferior compared to Windwalkers. You can’t underestimate how good ring of peace is either. EVERY dps (except shadow priest and boomkin) has an interrupt so the fact you call THAT a utility is laughable.
Link your data so people can actually review it themselves. You’re looking at 75% percentile which for feral (since so few play it) is probably +6 keys.
from the OP
Data comes from Raider IO and warcraftlogs as of 9/1/21 from pages like these:
Only instead of +15 keys I selected +20’s
Don’t know where you’re getting the 75th percentile from, I’m not looking at score but absolute damage.
I’d ask for whatever verifiable data you have, but you seem to have none and avoid almost every question I ask.
Your post said
So you picked the 25th highest performer?
Our discussion was that druids can perform better in 20s than 15s, then you suddenly compare them to Windwalkers, who have uncapped AOE, “Rising Dragon Punch.” Instead of other capped classes or even just what we were discussing, 15 performance compared to 20s.
Top feral dps for DOS+20 8352.3 DPS
Top Feral DPS for DOS+15 8088.8 DPS A significant difference.
Demo Warlock +20 DOS 8388.0 DPS
So similar it’s basically the same.
for every spec from every dungeon the 25th best parse is picked because
and again from the OP
This is throws out extreme outliers and gives a more conservative picture of the balance.
If you go with the best parse from every spec the difference is just more extreme. Some of that data is included in the OP as well, it’s the “1st Avg” column. In the case of WW vs’ Feral feral is 4k behind instead of less than 3k behind.
Then where did your number come from? The 25th best performer isn’t at the dps you listed?
25th best parse.
It’s the row with a “25” in front of it in the link I listed.
Rows are the things that go from left to right
Funny, doesn’t change the fact it appears you lied.
Looking at windwalker RIGHT NOW the 25 highest DOS is 10514.6
You listed 10502.
You’re ALSO ignoring the original discussion which i reminded you about before. Feral does SIGNIFICANTLY better in 20s than 15s. Don’t want to admit you were wrong?
PS: If you use the 25th best performance on a top 100 chart, then you’re doing the 75th percentile of that chart.
There’s a next button at the bottom of the page.
Try using it. There’s 1000’s of parses. So the 25th best parse is probably closer to the top 1% of parses depending on how much data there is.
You do know that’s a live database, the data changes over time. You do know these things right? That 10502 is now the 27th best parse. There’s dates in the rows and you can see the two that have been added since I posted. And actually 10,531 is the 25th ( 75th percentile ) best parse now, you liar.
In a vacuum they do. But this is a thread about relative balance and relative to other specs they are even worse then in 15’s
And thank you for straw manning this to so we can keep this topic bumped.
I’M straw manning? You pick one sentence in a post to reply to when you are CLEARLY wrong. I didn’t say 75% of the population. You provided a list of the top 100, (its literally labeled as such) and picked the 25th highest. That is the 75% PERIOD.