They may have been back when they were relevant content. I believe C’Thun was the most wiped-on raid boss in history, if memory serves.
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Apples and Oranges - classic gets “beat” and then “trivialized”; M+ never gets beat but then offers a measure of skill you can see
What people are forgetting is that it’s all relative to the standards of the time.
Blizzard has NEVER added a difficulty intended to make things harder. All they have ever done is add difficulties to make it easier.
They added Normal to make it easier, in Wrath.
They added LFR to make it easier, in Cata.
They added Flex (which is now called Normal) to make it easier, in Mists.
If they dropped all the added difficulties, the only raiding difficulty would be Mythic.
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I think Classic is a better designed game is pretty much all respects but M+ and raids… The Classic raids are brain dead easy…
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that face when someone tells me classic is hard.
Turning my car on requires more thought than the mechanics that are present in classic raid, The whole two of them…
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Yeah, but Vael was considered a guild breaker and his hardest mechanic was basically “don’t stand in the raid and kill people if you get the debuff”.
People were really bad at the game back then.
And while C’thun is notable for being “impossible”, that’s only because back then Blizzard designers were about as competent as the players and the fight was bugged to all hell, not because it was a mechanically demanding fight.
Mythic Kil’jaeden is probably the hardest fight Blizzard have ever made, without making it actually impossible due to either bugs or design (Kael’thas was also impossible, purely cause they hadn’t finished Black Temple yet, so they needed to keep people out).
Edit: C’thun took 38 minutes from zoning in to world first on classic.
I wonder if Naxx will take more than an hour.
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Classic could have been great. Unfortunately world buffs are a thing that blizzard did not disable(reason I quit and won’t be back) and of course they have not done enough/anything at all to combat the bots. No, banwaves don’t count as doing something as its effectively doing nothing but setting them back a week.
No matter how bad an expansion is, the raid designers have been absolutely crushing it.
IMO, BoD was one of the best raids Blizzard have ever designed, and Nya’lotha would have been really good if Corruptions weren’t a thing.
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Well, he is claiming classic dungeons and raids can be very challenging so counting may still be beyond his grasp.
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No they can’t lmao
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I really like BoD too. All time favorite has to be Nighthold though
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They added heroic in Wrath. Prior to Trial of the Crusader there was no such thing as a “heroic” raid.
It was just the raid.
And obviously as they have added easier modes like LFR and Flex they have also kept ramping the difficulty of the hardest mode up way past 11.
If they dropped all of the added difficulties the only one left would be heroic.
No. Go back to classic. Stop complaining about stuff you don’t play.
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You’re correct that Heroic was added in Wrath, but 10 was considered “Normal” and 25 was considered “Heroic” and in Ulduar we had full-blown Hard Modes.
Overall, Classic content is not very challenging. There are 100+ videos on Youtube of how you can cheese or low-man them. It’s like old nintendo games. After something is that old, people find creative ways to “master” the content to where challenge is no longer a factor.
Good example is Castlevania. That game broke a lot of controllers back in the day with its difficulty. Now you can see videos of people going through the game without ever taking a single hit. And that’s because it’s old.
Except both were fairly easy.
And ICC and ToC kept both 10/25 and normal/heroic so they were different.
You say, Ulduar ADDED hard modes eh? Added some difficulty?
Ulduar had Hard Modes that you had to individually trigger for several bosses, in a far more fleshed-out version of what Blizzard did for Sartharion. Flame Leviathan, the four Keepers, XT, Yogg, and plenty of others had hardmodes you had to trigger by doing things that were somewhat out of your way (i.e. turning on the tower defense mechanisms, or not talking to the Keepers to get their buffs).
Problem is, these could be kinda hard to balance sometimes. Firefighter and Yogg-0 were insanely hard for all the wrong reasons. It was a lot easier and more intuitive to just give raids a Normal/Heroic difficulty setting.
Everything after Wrath, however, added difficulties largely to make raiding more accessible/easier.
BoD, BRF and ToT are my top three, but Nighthold was great. Definitely the coolest of the Legion raids.
First ‘hard mode’ was introduced in AQ40 with the Bug Trio.
I unfortunately didn’t raid MoP 