I know allot of people don’t see the point of the 15 second death timer. No one asked for it
Why don’t they just make it so instead of having that we just rotate old M+ Affixes.
Like sanguine. Inspiring. Bursting. Spiteful.
If anyone has any other ideas?
I know allot of people want to make the 15 second timer only apply to 11+ keys. Let people get to 10s. then if they want to push higher they can deal with something after they’re geared enough and don’t have people bricking keys because they didn’t fully understand something before going into a 7 causing a group wipe.
Yes people should learn in 2’s-4’s but that’s not realistic to expect of the entire playerbase.
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While I’m certain no player suggested an affix that causes deaths to be 3x as painful on the timer, it’s a bit disingenuous to act like players weren’t asking for this kind of affix. Every other affix you listed here, and nearly every non-seasonal affix ever added to the game, was a common source of frustration amongst much of the M+ community. Very few people looked forward to any given affix, and the “push” week affixes were really just the ones that had the least impact on the timer, not things people actually looked forward to. I mean even I am on record as someone who liked having rotating affixes for the variety, but never being a fan of any affix except for a few of the seasonal affixes.
As much as Challenger’s Peril sucks, it is truly the no-impact-on-gameplay affix many players were asking for. Players don’t have to play around it, there is no change on the rotation or route because it exists. Except in the rare cases where intentional deaths were the strategy the average group chose to use, it is completely non-impactful if you don’t make other mistakes. It’s basically impossible to make that statement about any other affix we’ve ever had.
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my guild was talking about making the adds have a specific affix and the bosses have a specific affix. instead of the current xalatath affix. where the balls can happen at any time. maybe keep the balls for adds and on bosses have 1 big ball every player has to run through that has 5 stacks(1 stack removed per player) and players have to run through the big one for the buff(boss only affix)
And just removing the 15s timer on deaths. for some groups it completely bricks the key. but honestly if that 1 wipe was gonna brick the key it was PROBABLY going to be bricked regardless
Maybe because the M+ community has completely lost its mind with every single M+ affix ever, saying it’s too punitive, punishing, hard, whatever.
The M+ collective - even the “good” M+ players who stream - had a complete meltdown over Thundering in DF season 1, a nothingburger easy affix that prompted such a reaction from the players that it actually led to seasonal affixes being removed from the game.
So why don’t they use the old affix, since the current one is unpopular? Because every M+ affix ever has been unpopular.
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no one is asking for as longer death timer punishment lol
Yes, people would just like free loot mailed directly to their mailbox.
People would also like whatever key they finish (or untimed) that score magically goes up and key level too. (We saw this with guile.)
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That’s not really a fair assessment. How many keys have you timed with less than 30 seconds on the timer? If any such key had at least 3 deaths, that’s a deplete under Challenger’s Peril. I’ve had sub-10 second left timed keys before; even a single death in such key is now a deplete.
Like I said, it is the kind of affix players were asking for. It in and of itself does nothing to the group; play clean and it truly doesn’t exist. Its only affect on the moment-to-moment gameplay is if players increase the risk in the dungeon in response to getting low on time with some deaths.
This is just not an accurate description of the affix. There are times when grouping up results in death for one or both players, and having to do so at certain times you had little control over was really problematic. Whenever a mechanic that isn’t part of the dungeon forces competing counterplay from a dungeon mechanic, it’s bad. It’s the same reason why afflicted was bad. Taken alone it’s fine; but when placed in context of a key that pushes your group’s limits, it can create unwinnable situations through no fault of your own.
Of course I suspect you stayed just at the level of key where rewards stopped and thus you weren’t at that level that truly pushed your teams. And so being able to clear or just absorb the stun wasn’t a death sentence.
The affix lasted forever. Even during spread phases, you could get close enough. Do you have an example of a bad overlap that can’t be played around?
It’s not like quaking which instantly killed you.
One of the versions just harshly penalized runbacks.
It does what other affixes do: It interrupts the sacred dps rotation.
I’d like longer death timer punishments.
BOOM!
edit: lol
I hesitate to give such an example because I already foresee the responses which will downplay the real-time coordination aspect of it. For example, there will be no consideration given to two blue players expecting to clear with the same red, and the confusion created when the odd-blue-out player in that scenario needing to recognize they didn’t actually manage to clear their debuff. Yes, good coordination will cover this; but it’s not an easy thing to coordinate in real time amongst other effects going on through just text.
With that preamble out of the way, here are a few mechanics that didn’t play nicely in the sandbox with Thundering:
- Halls of Valor: Arcing Bolt on Hyrja, Ravenous Leap on Fenryr, Runic Brand on Odyn
- Algeth’ar Academy: Arcane Orbs on Vexamus, Sonic Vulnerability on Crawth, Energy Bomb on Doragosa
- Ruby Life Pools: Chillstorm on Melidrussa, Infernocore from Kyrakka
- Shadowmoon Burial Ground: Dark Eclipse on Sadana Bloodfury, Omen of Death on Ner’zhul
- Temple of the Jade Serpent: Wash Away on Wise Mari, Wither Will on Sha of Doubt
- Azure Vault: Explosive Brand on Leymor, Frost Bomb on Talesh Greywing
- Nokhud Offensive: Earthsplitter from Maruuk, Upheaval/Crackling Upheaval on Balakar Khan
To reiterate what I mentioned in the first paragraph, if we assume groups should have pristine mid-fight coordination, then you are correct, none of these things should result in Thundering stunning players. But there were so many moving parts to the affix that meant it could be very easy to fall out of sync with other players. A mix up of your Thundering partner while one player expects to clear immediately while the other wants to wait a while during a time when the group might wind up getting split because of not knowing the direction the tank is going to run to avoid Earthsplitter was fairly easy for any group that didn’t play together all the time/were very adept at coordinating on the fly in discord wasn’t some far-fetched event that rarely occurred.
But that’s not restricted to Thundering, it’s pretty much every affix - if they happen during X, it’s harder.
Something as simple as volcanic can interrupt casts. On say Kyrakka during the window between boss interrupts.
The group having to coordinate 2 pairs of players together is restricted to Thundering though. If the affix created an image of your character on top of where another player was standing that you need to run to in order to clear your debuff, I wouldn’t have even responded in this post. It’s the fact that several different aspects of coordination have to be met, the who, when, and where you are going to clear, in order to be successful. And if anything about either pair fails that coordination check, the group can run into problems.
It’s not the timer, it’s the graveyards, for instance the 15 seconds doesn’t feel as bad in dawnbreaker where you can be back to the fight in 10 seconds, vs stone vault where it’s a minute run back