Hello all,
What are your thoughts on choosing which to use? Obviously with the 100% buff outside of raids, it could be more beneficial to use in M+. I am just trying to justify that vs a 25% damage reduction bubble. Even with some movements i still feel that it will come out on top over Luminous.
I think the expectation (assuming it gets tunned properly) should be for regular PW:Barrier to be the “default” choice and the better option in any Raid encounter where you can properly stack during a high-damage phase. But Lum Barrier should be an alternative for encounters where you can’t get good value from PW:Barrier.
Now I’m not sure if the tunning is there, as far as I understand the initial implementation was very weak and I don’t recall any changes since.
The other situation where I think some might take Lum Barrier would be things like LFR or even Normal Raid perhaps… For M+ I fully expect PW:Barrier to be the better choice all the time.
Luminous barrier is for 3 situations really:
It likely will never be tuned to a point where Luminous Barrier can ever block more than PW:B can prevent on its own in high level content. If it did, it would flat out be way too strong.
Absolutely true, but it’s tuned so low right now that catching 6-7 people in a raid or 2 people in M+ with PWB is probably going to be better even though PWB isn’t being utilized well.
It’s especially pathetic in M+ given that it shields for less than Rapture on double the cooldown and, indulging in a bit of salt, is directly comparable to mage’s Mass Barrier, which shields for between 5-6x more on 2/3 the cooldown.
Hopefully they tune it up significantly. Like you say, it doesn’t need to compete with a well-used PWB - it only needs to shield enough that it isn’t 3-6x worse than numerous directly comparable abilities with lower cooldowns.
I will say, there’s some merit to them being a little careful with it, especially in M+.
Because it’s a shield, and shields interact with our mastery, so a Radiance → Luminous Barrier, even at the 190% base sp number makes the shield actually 494% sp healing in 5 mans. It’s still not like fantastic or anything, but it makes sense why they’re not pushing it up to 2.8 like it used to be immediately.
Did they buff Luminous Barrier? It was trash on the PTR when I tested it and only made a 50k absorb in parties.
If it just applied Atonement like a normal PW:S, that alone would make it attractive for different situations.
No - it’s still at 1.9 SP. What I was saying is that in a 5 man, it’s doubled to 3.8, then grace with pretty meh mastery puts it at 4.94 - which isn’t terrible but still pretty bad. More just saying I can understand why they might be hesitant to buff it for parties, because grace goes on top of that. If they were to bring it back at its BFA numbers, the 5 man version of it would be like 730% SP shield on everyone, which is kinda nuts - because the BfA version didn’t have that extra shielding in party.
That would make it attractive for ALL situations. It’d functionally just be a significantly better raid CD than anyone has and cuts so much mana spend from the kit in raid it would amount to a huge HPS increase.
luminous barrier need to be buffed massively, like add a 0 to the end of the absord these changes are terrible… like somoene spent 30 seconds coming up with 10.1.5 for disc changes
I went on the PTR and it’s still a crappy 50k absorb shield in party and 25k for raid.
they either need to make it like 100K on 90 second CD or 200-250k on 3min to compete with Barrier IMO
It’s never going to compete with barrier. If it ever did, they might as well remove barrier, lol.
A 100k on 90s or a 200k shield on the entire raid every 3 mins would just flat out be significantly better than most healer CDs in the game. At that point it’s better than revival’s healing, but also a shield.
Barrier has the requirement of needing the whole raid to stack in a small area. That isn’t possible in every fight. It’s OK for the spec to have a spell that’s easier to use for new players, and fits all fight scenarios as a choice vs one that outperforms it but requires coordination. Especially considering the vast majority of raid groups in this game are VERY uncoordinated. If you’re raiding mythic you’ve got a very skewed perspective on what the regular raid group is like. I’ve been in guilds that are hyper casual raiders that basically function like pugs. I’ve been in Mythic guilds and gotten CE on previous raid tiers, and currently am in a guild that only shoots for AOTC. The difference between a team shooting for CE, and a casual heroic guild is IMMENSE in terms of strats. I can already see situations where I’d use the CURRENT proposed Luminous Barrier, even though it’s definitely weak.
It could use a buff, and a big one, yes. But the buff should likely be a 2x, not a 5x.
It’s way too weak atm if you compare it to Barrier or any other raid wide healing cd. They’d have to increase the absorb by 5x just to match Barrier.
Put me up against this PW: Barrier, I’ll kick their dooker.
Again - If it matched barrier, barrier would be useless. It doesn’t have any restriction on movement like barrier does and hits the whole raid regardless of how far they are.
I think people don’t even really know how much healing your standard CD does.
Revival is 325% sp.
Divine Hymn is 307.8% sp (this is considering the boosted per tick).
HTT is 218.75% sp.
Luminous Barrier is currently at 190% sp. This is relatively weak, yes.
If we 5xed it, it’s now a 950% sp heal, but also it’s a shield.
That’s incredibly wild to be asking for.
A 3 minute 600k absorb in Mythic is a joke to take. Any other raid wide cd including barrier is an instant 3-5 million healing.
But… they aren’t. Only rewind in a fight like Rashok is healing that much.
Their raw healing is generally around 3.3m per cast, and usually their ACTUAL healing is around 2.2m per cast - or somewhere in that range. Rashok and Sark are good examples of this because there’s specific hard hitting moments for CDs to be popped - for most classes that are in the top parses in Rashok, you’re seeing their healing in the most damaging phase of the fight. But it’s still never getting near 5m per cast on their CDs. Usually it’s near 5-6m total healing.
We’re talking about a shield, here, and saying it should heal near 4m raw healing per cast. That’s absurd. Yes, it should be buffed. I’ve said that more than once. No it should not be 5xed to the point it’s outdoing every healing CD in the game because otherwise an optimized barrier beats it.
Yes, but none of the other specs have to decide between 2 major CDs though. I think it should be doubled at least, because LB needs to be compared to PW Barrier, not the other healers CDs
All good thoughts! I believe barrier would be taken in most forms of content still, and i do agree that to make luminous more competitive, reducing the CD and allowing the spread of atonements would definitely make it a more competitive option. Will be interesting to see tomorrow what others come up with!
That’s terrible - you’d think they’d at least give the talent a bonus to healing received, similar to Divine Hymn or something to make it a more attractive dungeon talent.