Never, so isn’t it better they’re carried by talents than other players?
Except the OP is complaining that they can’t carry. Instead must give those people power so stuff runs along smoothly.
Because the community spends a nonzero amount of time playing 11 12 13 and 14s and those runs will be more enjoyable.
The point is that the carrying never stops, it’s what humans do. We help each other out and include each other. It’s why we’re on the same planet and not just on our own moons.
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It just moves whatever popular farming level is.
And people will be having problems there (and complaining) just the same.
The idea that the game must be easy (at 11) for everyone is absurd.
May I remind you that mythic +2 exists and so does mythic +0?
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Why? Your entire point here is that it doesn’t matter what level people start having problems. Perhaps the point is wrong, and it does matter.
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The only low key I feel is somewhat difficult is Underrot, and that one is purely because the third (and partially the second) boss requires knowledge of the mechanics from multiple party members. Otherwise I think Mythic+ is at a great difficulty level this season.
And Underrot isn’t even really hard, you just need to understand what is going on to clear those bosses effectively.
I’m just saying it’s shifting goalposts. Then we’re back to +20 is free for everyone just because it’s m+.
These recent nerfs already set it towards that trend.
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Not really though. Normal/Heroic raid is dropping essentially 437/441 loot and it’s I’d guess it’s more popular than it’s been in several years. It’s also easier than it’s been in several years. Multi-factored, but until H Sark it’s basically free.
Seems they’re more tired of carrying than that they can’t.
Then do harder content. 
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what’s wrong with +20 being the harder content especially when it’s the end of attainable rewards? The next milestone is the season title which is 0.1% of top players.
First of all, I’m not saying that it should or shouldn’t be easy for them in 11s. I’m saying that there should be builds which are easy enough to get most people through 11s when grouped with good players without causing those good players much hardship. I’m saying that the skill floors for most viable M+/AoE builds are too high for too many people and the specs need options to be easier and still goodish. I’m not saying that the dungeons need to change, or the best fun complicated builds need to change.
But even if that is the case, so what? M+ is fun when M+20 or wherever the max vault lands is free. Then every key where people want gear is easy, and every key where people want to push and play for the sport of it isn’t filled with people who just want to do the bare minimum and gear up. People who like raiding and don’t want to do M+ don’t have a hard time of it either. Everybody wins.
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I’ve had more fun in season 1 because max gear was not free.
I tried healing on a fresh Druid. I had a lower Ilvl around 390 on a +5 and it was really hard for me. I’m not a very good player, but it felt like my heals were doing nothing. (Also not sure if my gear was even good enough to do it 
)
But yes, please lower it!
(Also ironic a Gnome is asking to lower stuff!)
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You’re better off arguing for an iron curtain. M+ doesn’t impact raid and raid doesn’t impact m+.
Silly to me that best raid gear is NOT obtainable for most, but m+ gear must be because it is m+. What’s wrong with equality?
Look, I don’t mind shifting raid gear up one mode and letting heroic/mythic be the same gear with different tints. But this thread is not about that.
as for gear rewards - having the makes it more fun than not having them. Boss downed, no loot useful because of vault /m+, such a downer.
Same is for m+.
Thus, why I hope the max reward is not attainable for most, on par with mythic raid which would be ending at +25 or something for a semblance of parity.
+20 should not be giving out 447s, even in vault.
Your gear was probably the biggest reason for that.
Many people doing 5s are around 410 item level. That’s at least 20% more healing done right there, just from item level alone.
It still takes a lot more than a single Swiftmend or Regrowth to top people off in Dragonflight, but it isn’t quite so bad once your gear is better.
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Oh ok! I was surprised the took me in the first place.
Look, I don’t care about gearing, it’s just an annoying chore I do to do M+ which I love doing. I don’t care what gear I am wearing or where it comes from. This is about making the game accessible to people who aren’t very skilled or just learning new specs without ruining the experience of others. I don’t care if you move up the gear or even make M+ use gear templates (as long as we control the secondaries)
It’s already accessible because normal/heroic/mythic / m+2 all exist. And lfr too.
People don’t need to attain the best or close to the best especially when they’re just starting out. A sense of character progression.
Well, I’ve learned that even though loot is a tool, a meaningless empty husk of a means to an end of doing the content I enjoy doing. Most people find it entertaining/satisfying to obtain the top loot and want to feel like they’re capable of doing so. There’s those that believe it’s important they can and that others can’t so the meaningless loot that is a tool for doing what you want to do… has value? But those are fewer.
Raid has proven imo that it’s important for the content to be more approachable and easier. So would making the entry to PVP easier. It’s important players feel they can “win”. PVP is dead for similar reasons. Raid was all but dead in 9.2 for similar reasons. I’d like to see M+ not die.
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