I love seeing comments about how new players shouldn’t be playing with other people in an MMO lol.
Retail is absolute trash.
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you mean ruin the experience for others
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Blizzard’s cool new scaling system is poorly tuned and punishes you for leveling up. My level 79 struggles with things that a level 10 can just obliterate.
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Like how those others ruin the experience of the new player?
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4 vs 1. - the 4 take priority over 1
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How on earth are new players supposed to learn, then?
Let me guess: “JUST KNOW THE CONTENT NOOBS OMG GIT GUD!!1one!” 
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you don’t need to do dungeons to get used to which buttons do which - you can learn that just fine questing
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No, but players need to learn dungeon group mechanics, as well as particular dungeon layouts, sometime.
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This isn’t a new problem at all. It’s just perhaps the worst it’s been now. While I don’t remember low levels ever being as ridiculously and absurdly and fun-murderingly over-powered in the past, leveling up weakening your character has been a thing literally since Burning Crusade and the “rating system” for gear stats became a thing.
I seem to remember some alts in BC having this same problem of barely being able to solo an even-con mob at 69. Particularly my rogue.
You reminded me of the time when I queued for the Azure Vault I think. Farmed some recipe in DF dungeon which I didn’t get at the end. Had enough damage to solo but used LFG to queue so I don’t need to run back and reset the instance. As a tank I ran from boss to boss and it felt like a followers dungeon. Basically I was ruining some new players experience, so started to just pull and let them kill. It’s the design and maybe they can fix it by grouping together by iLvl and not making 1 in 800 drop chance items.
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If it comes down to skill, yes, but speed is determined by attitude and intent, not skill.
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Ah yes, good ole oppression of the minority. So I guess we can torture and enslave any minority so long as it makes the majority ecstatically blissful, eh? Utilitarians are the worst.
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Yes I want to ruin the authentic dungeoncrawler experience of holding the W key the entire way to the finish line.
Oh, wow, comparing speed-running dungeons to “oppression of the minority”? That’s certainly… creative. I have to admire the sheer audacity of taking such a simple, practical group outcome and spinning it into a moral argument. Not everyone could make that leap, so kudos to you for the effort.
But this isn’t a moral issue—it’s a practical outcome of group dynamics. When five random people come together, they default to majority preference because it’s the path of least resistance. No deep moral calculus happens here; it’s just what naturally occurs in group settings.
Now, before you try to argue this is some insidious form of utilitarianism, let me stop you there. This isn’t about maximizing collective happiness at the expense of the individual. It’s about functional gameplay. The majority isn’t consciously prioritizing their fun over yours—they’re just playing the way they want to, the same as you are. If your playstyle doesn’t align, the practical solution is to find a group of like-minded players, not turn it into a moral crusade.
And as much as I have my own issues with utilitarianism, dismissing it outright as “the worst” without engaging with its actual principles is lazy. Critique the philosophy if you want, but at least make sure it’s relevant to the discussion. Right now, this is just hyperbole dressed up as an argument.
Moo!
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I think that maybe Blizz can try to add an additional check box to LFG, one that people can check along the lines of leveling alts so they want a fast run, and another to check they want to slow down a bit?
Or something like rather than party leader, have one party mentor or guide? Something that one can check saying they don’t mind going slow and teaching the dungeon to newer people?
It’s a thought in progress, I just woke up.
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Yes, players will gravitate towards speeding through the dungeon because enemies aren’t dangerous and that’s the quickest way to get rewards, so we can’t expect groups to slow themselves down for the sake of being slow. It’s the responsibility of the devs to decide how dungeons should be paced and adjust the difficulty in accordance.
It’s a dev-created issue, not a player-created issue.
Most players will naturally gravitate toward completing a dungeon as quickly as possible because it’s often viewed as a speed bump on the way to achieving their broader goals.
Even if developers were to scale dungeon difficulty up to something like a Mythic+10, players would still pull multiple packs at once. Why? First, it’s fun to see bigger numbers, and second, it finishes the content faster. This tendency isn’t tied to timers—it’s simply how many players approach content.
Short of implementing something like pre-nerf Cataclysm difficulty, I don’t see how devs can slow players down because, generally speaking, they don’t want to be slowed down. Participation rates make this clear—any time Timewalking dungeons scale toward their most difficult tuning, participation drops significantly.
To clarify, though, my original point wasn’t about assigning blame for this issue or suggesting it can or should be solved. My goal was to highlight the sheer absurdity of framing this as oppression of minorities or as some form of moral decision-making. After all it seems denigrating an entire portion of people based on their moral decision making without laying down the reasoning is intellectually lazy and morally reprehensible. I normally don’t get irritated by much but that post certainly did so.
Moo!
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To be frank I don’t care if a new player enjoys a dungeon or not. I’m playing a 20 year old game, running the same dungeon for the 100th time (at least.) I want the twinked out level 11 tank to blast right to the end so I can requeue as fast as possible.
It’s not my job to make sure a new player enjoys this game, it’s Blizzard’s job.
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Yes players want to go as fast as possible because that’s the quickest path to a reward. Cata dungeons pre-nerf weren’t an issue because they were slower than dungeons right now, they were an issue because the difficulty was so highly tuned we saw tanks getting smashed and DPS dying to a single aoe, even if they took their time on every pull. They were simply too hard.
Optimally, the dungeon should be just hard enough that pulling multiple packs is reasonably dangerous and holding the W key as we do now is something for only highly coordinated teams, but not so hard that individual packs’ AOEs and tank busters are frustrating groups. New players would not enjoy Cata-difficulty dungeons.
They could add a slow runner toggle that only cued up players with the “i want a slow run” toggled. That way it wouldnt effect all the other players that play this game that dont want a slow run.