Good thing the High Elves and Sentinels did little then, and the Blood Elves made up the main attack force. The Blood Elves basically spearheaded the attack, the sentinels was largely left to scouting, as Liadrin pointed out they were much better suited for because the sentinels were NOT accustomed to battlefields such as the one in Suramar, and the High Elves was left in the flank.
That combined with Tyrande being so demeaning to the Nightfallen, not to mention insisting that they fight their own battle, it is clear to see the Nightborne would eventually form a much closer kinship with the Blood Elves - shared struggles and becoming brothers and sisters in the heat of war. That combined with the fact that they both now suffered the arrogance and belittlement of the Night Elves (The blood elves also having suffered an invasion by the Night Elves)
The Night Elves had it coming⌠damned elves, being too tall.
The burning of teldrassil.
With the full knowledge of the entire Horde decided to keep supporting Sylvanas and fought an entire war camaign for her whilst fully know what she had done. This makes them fully complicit
At battle of Lordaeron they had the perfect opportunity to either leave her to her fate.
They did not and so that makes them complicit.
It was after she turned on them that they decided to finally take ger down.
So all the excuses of why they could not abandon Sylvanas fall apart.
Because they switched sides when they had less plausible deniability.
Let me dumb this down for you further.
If your boss murders someone and you with this full knowledge try to protect and assist him. Do you not think you will be blameless?
Even if thatâs true, they still helped when they could have done nothing, apparently that counts for nothing?
Literally what Tyrande said was 'Hey, the last two Highborne leaders turned out to be despots who helped a Universe destroying/conquering faction, donât go 3 for 3 ok?", and guess what she turned out to be right in the end.
actually tyrande clearly said that they went to defeat the legion not to help the nightborne.
on war crimes is what I said if you donât commit war crimes you are not guilty of war crimes, the only guilty ones are those who commit them. Even if your allies committed war crimes, if you didnât, youâre not guilty.
lorthemar is like rommel did not commit war crimes and in his case he overthrew the one who did commit them, which was sylvanas.
Uh-oh, weirdo alert! I knew most of you had a screw loose, but fantasizing about fictional children âsufferingâ is a new low and is very weird.
This is factually incorrect. Tyrande herself states the Night Elvesâ motives for her being present during the liberation of Suramar, and it wasnât to âsaveâ Thalyssra or the Nightborne.
Tyrande: The kaldorei will fight to see the Legion defeated and the Nightwell destroyed.
The Night Elves arenât owed anything from the Nightborne for their involvement in defeating the Legion which threatened the entire world.
defeating the legion was to everyoneâs benefit. also the ones who did the most were the blood elves
Lady Liadrin
Your leaders need to get their heads in the game.
Vereesa is so obsessed with her desire for revenge against the Horde that we cannot trust our flank to her.
Tyrande is a sentinel. She knows little of war on this type of battlefield. While her scouting is useful she should recuse the Kalâdorei from the main assault.
My blood knights are the only ones prepared to carry the weight of this conflict.
Grand Magister Rommath
Hmph. Your armies are chaotic and unorderly. Fortunately our blood knights and magisters will form the core of this assault, striking true into the heart of the city.
We can also see how the blood elves cared about the nightborne and wanted to help
Lady Liadrin
Few understand the plight of the Nightfallen better than the Sinâdorei. My heart goes out to them.
But Thalyssra must understand that there is a difference between an insurrection and a war.
Until now, her rebels have got by with a few skirmishes here and there. But they have not been hardened by battle as we blood elves have.
Grand Magister Rommath
The Nightwell. An unimaginable font of arcane power. What would have happened to the sinâdorei if we had such a source?..
No matter. We have forged our own destiny. Our glory is our own, and we are no longer slaves to our hungers.
This siege is a momentous occasion, . We stand with long-lost kin, our enemies, against some of the most powerful magi in the world. Our actions will determine the future of all elf-kind.
That doesnât matter when after the fact they did not do anything about it.
If you protect and assist after fact it does.
If you send soldiers to assist in the warcrime it does.
If Roosevelt sent American soldiers to help the Morrocans with the rape and then stood with them side by side to protect them from any condemnation or retribution then yes. They would be complicit.
I absolutely can and I would be correct in doing so.
Nothing you have said here deflects any responsibility or guilt from either of them.
They and the entire Horde are guilty by direct association and enabling of the second wow hitler the Horde has produced in this story.
This action is meaningless given the fact that their Dear Leader turned on them first by trying to consolidate her own power further.
And! This is the second time they do this!
But since you brought up the N@zis the entire Horde leadership could stand trial.
You know like Nuremburg.
In those trials people like Guderian were acquitted of war crimes.
and yes the American, French and British soldiers did nothing to stop the crimes of their Moroccan allies because âwar is like thatâ or âfirst you have to win the warâ. It is true that some Moroccan officers were tried after the war.
I played war of thorns and I donât remember nightborne and blood elf troops. the only blood elf i remember was lorash who died before the burning
If someone doesnât care about helping someone, but their actions end up helping them, they still technically helped them.
âThat person just helped you by putting out the fire burning down your homeâ
âBut they didnât do it to save me, they did it to stop the fire spreadingâ
âBut they still stopped the fire and saved your life right?â
âYeah I guess b-â
âThen they helped you, end of storyâ
So by that logic, no-one who helped the Nightborne are owed anything. And also when the Orcs helped fight the Legion in Warcraft 3 they canât be considered redeeming themselves because they were just saving a world they lived on.
We arenât talking about a situation where one group is off doing one thing, and the other group is doing warcrimes and blaming both. We are talking about a situation where the leader of one group directly ordered a massive warcrime, and the same group does everything in their power to stop them coming to justice.
Fighting to defend Sylvanas makes him guilty by association, and he didnât overthrow anyone, Sylvanas bailed on her own.
You framed Tyrandeâs presence in Suramar as some sort of altruistic gesture to save Thalyssra and the Nightborne specifically, when it was not. Throughout the entire liberation, Tyrande begrudgingly fought the Legion in Suramar and through her actions showed herself to not be a true ally of the Nightborne but merely an ally of convenience.
Tyrande Whisperwind says: The more shalâdorei that take up the fight, the fewer of my people who will be lost in the liberation of Suramar.
Firstly as I mentioned at least he stood trial for his crimes even though he did argue ignorance of many of the warcrimes he was kind of involved with.
His innocence was of the war crimes did was not a popular decision either.
Thalyssra and Lorthemar have no argument of being ignorant of the burning.
Lorthemar specifically mentions it.
And now you understand why the Lorthemar or Thalyssra or any of the Horde leaders reponsible for these mass killings escaping a trial and justice is gross.
They have no grounds for innocence. None.
Now I want to make sure I am being very clear, my problem isnât that they did not stand trial but the mere fact that the story does not treat what these individuals did as serious.
Like they were in time bubble when Teldrassil and much of BFA happened until the Najatar campaign.
They donât even explain themselves or justify their actions or show any shame or regret. And the story is supposed to treat these individuals as good people? One of them takes time out of his own busy day to teach a troll boy how to read and write? No.
This is totally false. You are only guilty of war crimes if you participated in those crimes. You cannot convict someone of war crimes if they did not commit any war crimes. Fighting on the alongside with a war criminal does not make you guilty of war crimes committed by someone else.
Which is better then not being an ally at all, and certainly doesnât excuse thalyssra being ok with Teldrassil burning which she obviously is by sticking with the Horde.
So letâs say in real life one person is personally responsible for planning and executing the genocide of 10,000 people and 100 of his mates donât help him directly, but do know about it, give him shelter and fight those who try to persecute him, none of them are guilty in any way whatsoever?
They didnât âfight alongside herâ they fought to protect her.
Name a single moment where Thalyssra directly states being âokâ with Sylvanasâs actions? How about Lorâthemar?
Can you provide to me any description or depiction of the Nightborne being present at Ashenvale for the War of Thorns or the Burning of Teldrassil? The answer is you canât.
It seems youâve also forgotten Lorâthemar and Thalyssra being part of the rebellion to depose Sylvanas in patch 8.2 and make peace with the Alliance.
Remember Siege of Lordaeron?
That placed him and all Horde allies as being Ok with Sylvanasâ actions.
And in the entire warcampaign at no point did they verbally say anything about their disgust or disapproval of these actions.
Baine committed mutiny over a single forsaken. We heard not a peep about the other warcrimes from him or any other leaders.
We did see though enthusiastic defense of Sylvanas and Lordaeron.
When she turned on them and tried to kill them to consolidate her power even further in the Horde.
What is up with certain players defending morally messed up behavior on a meta level? This and then there is the pro rape thread⌠christ this community somedays
Iâm not going to go along with your narrative that Thalyssra and Lorâthemar are war criminals and donât deserve happiness, and, more importantly, the writers arenât either.
You and the other onesâ fantasies about how they should suffer will never come to pass however much you huff and puff on the forums.
They only do this, so their faction can maintain a healthy dose of victimhood. He even complained about the dragonmaw quest line where the old man clearly was NOT redeemed.
Itâs just a thing certain posters do. Itâs annoying, but hasnât changed since BfA ended
You have presented nothing that indicates otherwise.
The writers being disgustingly tone deaf and borderline racist, and previously misogynists âallegedlyâ are not pillars to be followed.
They made Saurfang into a hero we should sympathize with.
And they did it again with Sylvanas and now a Dragonmaw orc.
There is a pattern of behavior by the writers to put villains on pedastals to be sympathized with and worshiped and victims as crazy people who should know their place.
Of course this sort of narrative has its fans and thats why once in a while we have a thread advocating for rapes or a thread like this one.
