Can the elements reach them? Are Shaman able to call upon aid from the elements on a plane where they don’t exist?
They have worked and not been limited each time we went to a different planet. Why then wouldn’t they work in a different realm of the same planet.
Shamans are known to commune with the spirit realm and often take treks in the spirit world. We can even transform into a spirit animal.
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Ner’zhul was a Shaman? 
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Elementals are already from the elemental plane associated with them.
https://i.imgur.com/FLceS12.jpg
Shadowlands is just to the ESE of “Reality”. Fire, Spirit, Water, Earth, Air all surround reality.
From what I understand, elementals are merely beings of those planes which are able to attain raw physical form in “reality”. So, to me, we are already communicating across planes of existence whenever we deal with the spirit realm or the elementals.
Shadowlands is probably close enough to “Reality” that it is not as difficult for the elementals who are able to create their physical form there to branch it to the Shadowlands as well. As long as they have some sorta focus, or person/thing to anchor them. This is where the shaman comes in.
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This is what separates the weak boys from the shaMEN.
Real Shamans merely use the elemental energies and become conduits of power, they don’t borrow or need to ask permission from entities.
The really early lore regarding shamanism was much better than what it later became, which was infested with “elementals” “planes” and all that fluff.
Uhh… This is absolutely incorrect.
In fact, it’s quite literally the opposite.
It’s also why raid bosses like the dark shaman duo in SoO were explicitly bad guys.
What are you even talking about lol
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the literal shaman description states “are mortal mediators between the very elements themselves. Often spiritual guides of their communities, these powerful practitioners commune with the ancestors and seek to balance the raging elemental forces”
it doesn’t specifically state it needs to ask permission from personifications of these elemental forces such as Elementals.
Even when you dig deep into the origin of the current wc3 era WoW shamanism from Lord of the Clans book where Drek’thar teaches Thrall about the elements, he refers to the forces in personifications but he refers to each element as a person.
That doesn’t mean there’s literal 4 element peoples that he asks permission to gain power from, the shaman is a conduit of raw elemental force regardless of spirits, ancestors or so called elementals.
Long story short, people put way too much emphasis on some other worldly entities, but the lore dictates that personifying the elements is not the same thing as actual elemental beings to ask for aid.
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how’s a dude gonna go read lord of the clans (or more likely look at the wiki lol) and then miss it and Unbroken where they literally personify the Spirit of Earth/Air/Fire/Water/Life as the force that gives shaman their power?
Yes, someone CAN use elemental power by force, by bending the elements to their will, but that’s not how any non-evil shaman has ever done it, and doing so makes you the bad guy.
Additionally, orcs lost their shamanistic powers and their connection to the elements because of their murderating shenanigans they participated in during Rise of the Horde
Uhh look up at the thread, no one ever once stated taking anything by force or murdering innocent people.
The discussion was whether shamans need to be some beta spellcasters that needs to ask and borrow powers from personified elementals.
That’s never been the case, you can personify the literal elements but no real shaman is begging “elementals” for borrowed power.
Even when Garrosh “tortured the elements miles around” and Thrall couldn’t here them, he still simply summoned lightning from within him, even in the Shaman Order Hall lorebook for the Doomhammer they literally tell you that Thrall’s own self doubt lead to losing his connection with the elements.
He doesn’t need to ask Therazane or Neptulon or any sort of personified elemental for power.
The elements are simply gatekeepers and whether you ask for their blessing or not a true Shaman can become a conduit and channel elemental energies just like how the Class Description dictates.
Mate they’re literally named in the same book you referenced.
There is a spirit of each element that’s the element personified.
https ://wow.gamepedia.com/Spirit_of_Earth
(o boy i can’t post links)
In the very same book, he says that they could (and absolutely would) cut him off if he did something they found inappropriate.
DREK’THAR (angrily): And I would violate the primary agreement with the elements, and nothing of nature would ever respond to me again! Do you understand nothing? Have the humans sunk their greedy talons in you so deeply that you cannot see what lies at the heart of a shaman’s power? I am granted these things because I ask , with respect in my heart, and I am willing to offer something in return. I request only the barest needs for myself and my people. At times, I ask great things, but only when the cause is good and just and wholesome. In return, I thank these powers, knowing they are borrowed only, never bought. They come to me because they choose to, not because I demand it! These are not slaves, Thrall. They are powerful entities who come of their own free will, who are companions in my magic, not my servants. Pagh! You will never understand.
There’s also been multiple times across quests and pieces of work where shamans also asked random elementals (as in, you literally do that as part of the class order hall) for their power.
What are you going for here? Both rando elementals and the spirit of each element have both been shown to grant shamans power.
The Spirit of each element is not simply a gatekeeper, though. It is an entity, just the same as any other rando like Therazane or Neptulon.
They are the ones who grant shamans their powers, as told in Unbroken and Lord of the Clans.
Personified elements may grant power but they don’t make or break a shaman.
A true master of the elements may invoke elemental spirits for assistance but as I stated before that that’s not the only way a true master gains his power.
Like the class description dictated, a shaman’s role to channel, mediate and control those chaotic energies are independent to being a servant to the elements.
Just because a personified elemental spirit tries to shut your connection to the elemental planes because they disagree with your morality doesn’t change the underlying basis that Shamans invoke and control elemental powers on their own.
Now personified elements may lorewise be referenced here and there but they’re not the SOURCE of power: they are merely gatekeepers.
All those elementals we gathered in Legion as well, they’re not our SOURCE, they simply gave us greater access to the elemental planes, our true nature and source of invoking such magics.
Based on what, though?
Because that’s not accurate, according to any established canon.
Based on the fact Thrall has already set the precedent that the middleman can be skipped.
When Garrosh twisted and tortured the elements miles around and none can heed Thrall’s call, he was able to summon thunder from within himself.
That is definitive concrete proof displayed in full view ingame proving the simple fact that Shamans or rather Farseers can harness powers directly from the elemental planes without any personified spirits gate keeping you.
You mean the part where Garrosh tells him the elements don’t work here, and then he responds with “Never alone, and never powerless”?
As in, even if he’s tortured them for miles, he’s still not without them?
That part?
look however you try to spin and justify your onesided argument it’s not going to change anything.
It’s the Virgin permission seeker vs the Chad Invoker.
No matter how much you try to justify personifying the elements it’s not ever going to be black and white element personifications that grant Shamans power.
Shamans gain their power by having access to the elemental planes not elementals. Period.
Now let me quote the official battlenet Shaman page again:
“Shaman are mortal mediators between the very ELEMENTS themselves. Often spiritual guides of their communities, these powerful practitioners commune with the ancestors and seek to balance the raging elemental forces, and can call upon them in battle to scorch and blast their enemies, or to strengthen and heal their allies. Shaman can enhance their weapons with elemental effects, smite enemies with lightning strikes and bursts of lava, and summon powerful elementals to their aid”
see it says mediators of the elements, not elementals or any personifications, it’s purposefully left vague because there’s more to elements than just trying to box them into personas.
Game Guide:
These masters of the elements can also call upon elemental FORCES directly, unleashing torrents of lava and bolts of lightning against foes.
Look again, here is the official description of what a shaman can do, they literally have been described to call upon the elemental FORCES directly, that means that they can call upon these forces without a middleman, they may have repercussions and judgement for their actions but that is a different subject of control all together.
The simple point of this discussion is that not everything a shaman does is dictated or related to personified elementals, they can conjure and use elemental forces directly as stated here officialy in the game guide itself, end of discussion.
It apparently offends your sense of fantasy power that as a shaman you arent boss numero uno, but lol it’s just a game dude. It’s so established and accepeted that shaman that don’t beseech the elements for their power are among other things evil. Your power fantasy not withstanding, shaman arent the elemental gods you would like them to be.
no one said Shamans are elemental gods, but they sure aren’t whimps that need to ask some sort of personified spirit for every action like lighting a match.
The description literally states they can harness elemental forces directly, there’s no argument to be had here.
First of all, I’m glad you think this way and there is no argument to be made. Clearly others disagree. Second, it isn’t asking permission like “mother may i”. It’s more that your actions are judged and if unworthy the elements do not help and you are left with the choice to take the power and evil yourself like the shaman that became warlocks.
Lastly, if you need to view your character in that way to feel more like a “shaMAN” as you put it, that’s just sad dude.
first of all, it was a pun, and second of all it clearly states the shaman can control elemental forces, that means that power stems from the elements and the elemental plane without middlemen.
You can try to make up and twist this argument all you want but nothing is going to change about that basic fact.
Even if you want to put more emphasis on elements as personifications they don’t grant you your powers, they merely would try to gatekeep it from the elemental planes themselves.
At this point the game guide and the official website makes it clear that the shaman canonically can command the elements like a true invoker, there’s no point arguing with me about it.
Oh i have no intention of arguing with you. It’s so easy to find references in game and out of the relationship between shaman and the elements. At this point you are either trolling or being willfully ignorant. Either way, best of luck.