[Lore] The Primalists, the narrative and the dissonance

Lemme just start this by getting Shadowlands out of the way first. SL took the narrative and ran with it in a bad direction for all of its duration, with growing stakes that had no build-up and the bombardment of new concepts every patch that both lacked a connection to anything established prior and at the same time managed to add little to it - honestly, it might have removed more than it added. The way the four covenants were presented made this apparently infinite afterlife seem small, as everything seemed to revolve around them. It introduced a lot more questions than it answered (many of which really didn’t need asking to begin with imo) through touching on things like how the souls are picked up, then sorted, and then thrown into one of these four realms, but only ever on a surface level. Korthia added little to nothing with a “city of secrets” that held no secrets, that continued to escalate the situation but without ever presenting the Jailer as a threat - he’s never met beyond the final act of the raid. Zereth Mortis was the culmination of this, completely detaching players who were already detached from all of Shadowlands’ concept by introducing this realm that now makes afterlives without also ever going into detail on any particular inner workings. It’s a mile long climb of increasing stakes, but incredibly shallow in how deep they could be explored, to say nothing of the fact that there was really nothing to connect back to what players were familiar with.

But Shadowlands is over, and we’re in the Dragon Isles now. The narrative isn’t as bleak, and instead of being surrounded by weird blue angel people, owls, vampires or skeletons, we’re escorted by familiar races in the Dragonscale Expedition. It’s already a far better start, but one that still plays out in a very strange way. Prepatch (however canon that may even be) had primalists attacking locations in the world, seemingly at random (unless the Barrens had some reason I missed), and they’re aiming to, much like others, turn the world inside out through elemental power.

Except that… They only ever act on the isles, we don’t know where they came from or why most of the primalists JOINED the primalists at all, and for all the threat they apparently pose to the whole world, the most the world could spare to help was a handful of explorers with archaeology tools. Not even a hint of support from the factions that were well established even for new players in Battle for Azeroth. There is an armistice going on, so the factions are cooperating to some degree – and that’s good, but it’s not shown in any degree. The expedition is instead this gray blob that is really neither.

And there’s a great dissonance here, where Raszageth (and now the remaining incarnates) are creatures that the dragons fear immensely, but take no further help to defeat. Fyrakk is out there burning places with shadowflame, roaming freely, but even Loamm is business as usual after he sets it to the torch. So which one is it, are they dangerous or just the average Tuesday? Is it that this story is meant to play out as if we are Dracthyr, given it was their story that set this off?

Those things might still be explored in a later update, of course, but I’ll try to tie it more or less to my main point, that I started with SL. Much like how SL was about the problems of the dead, and how little that tied back to what players were familiar with, DF is about the problems of dragons. This isn’t to say exploring either at length is necessarily bad, being able to explore more about the culture is great – but after a four year streak of nothing but that (and Shadowlands), small questlines like Baine and the centaur, the heritage questlines, and other small bits of the sort feel extremely welcome. Players are, after all, playing humans, orcs, tauren, etc, not dragons (though dracthyr have had an excellent treatment in expanding their lore well after release), so when everything current relates to “only the realms of death” and now “only the dragons”, the world once again feels very small. Especially when BFA left so much up in the air about recovery, reconnecting after the war.

I think it’s no wonder so many are hopeful for a world revamp, as it would bring them back to the roots of what made them enjoy the world itself. Even the Exploring series of books only describe what is already seen ingame, and what’s seen ingame is intrinsically tied to Cataclysm still, nearly a decade ago.

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I agree with this. The story needs to be expanded upon, in game. We shouldn’t need to read a novel to know what is occurring or why things happened within the game.

I’ve been trying to figure out since day one where these primalists came from, and how they spontaneously knew about a primal dragon that was held in stasis since before the sundering, or how they found out about the Dragon Isles to begin with. (Possibly the book sigh coming out soon will answer these questions?)

And it does seem like we’re just left high and dry about what is happening with the other 3 primal dragons. (Maybe they die off in the said upcoming book outside of the game?) And to boot, who are these guys? Besides just “They’re the primal dragons. They big bad.” We know very little about them.

Especially considering that 10.1.5 is now revolving just around the bronze dragonflight. What is happening with the primal dragons during this timeframe? 10.1.0’s final boss for the raid wasn’t even Fyrakk or one of the other ones… it was some Dracthyr guy that somehow became a god in power through who knows what means.

So many unanswered questions, so many whys. We need more answers, we need to know why, how, what, when, and where. instead of the current methodology of “When and where.”

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I concurr, we still lack good build up. It’s not as bad as SL, but still quite weak.

Why the lich king was such a good vilain ?

First : 6 years of build up at least, during War 3 then WOTLK. Take more time to build your vilains, to give them reasons to fight, reasons they have so much ressources. A good vilain could take one or two extensions to grow. With quest like the hearth of the lich king, we discovered some unknown or weird stuff about him. We knew him.

I really hope the coming of Murozond will be a good pay off of years of building.
You need to create more “slow burning” build up like that.

Second : Kayfabe. It’s like catch : to feel the urge, the danger, we have to see NPCs react worried, affraid. Send us scouting, send us on spying. Make us feel the danger is coming.

Third : the Lich King killed some fan favorite NPCs. You need to build up heroes too, to grow and fight the big bad and fail in front of our eyes. Show us the danger is real. Take time to build good heroes too. We need friends and loved one out there.

It’s time to build a world, you know ?

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Your second point reminds me of another thing that I wasn’t sure how to tie into the original post. Thus far, the response to every single problem has been “unity”, usually in some dialogue involving Alexstraza. There’s never any sense of weight behind it anymore because it’s simply repeated constantly whenever anything happens. It’s, again, not to say that you can’t use the themes of unity, which have always been prevalent in Warcraft, as a response, but DF has been utterly saturated in it.

If even the NPCs themselves have no reservations that we’re succeeding, then are there really any stakes? I’ve seen a lot of people bring up that the story feels boring, despite having good potential to succeed with the characters currently in play.

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I also dislike how we HAVE to read a book to know what’s goin on in the games major plot. Other games don’t do this. All books tied to other games don’t have key elements in them that will never get touched up on in games and only revolve around subplots not tied to the games main story. Only WoW does this and its frustrating and I honestly wish they’d stop. Key information should be in the game, not in a book.

To make things clearer; other books tied to other MMO’s or games only revolve around plots not related to the main story or are of the games current plot but from a different point of view.

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A recent interview shared by WoWHead here prompted me to dig up this thread again, because while the answer about how mistakes in the narrative are treated as unreliable narrators instead of mistakes, as they should, was incredibly frustrating, there was one particular answer that was brushed aside and leads to why I made this thread at all.

The Primalists came out of nowhere with the Dragonflight Pre-Patch without any context in order to free the “big bads”. They are now replaced by the Druids of the Flame with the same problems. Why not consider them simple Primalists?

Anne Stickney: “We’ve spent the entire expansion dealing with the Primalists, there aren’t many left (although there are still some), but they’re no longer the invasion force they were represented at the start of the expansion. On the other hand, the Druids of the Flame have a certain interest in what is at stake in the Emerald Dream and on the side of Amidrassil. Are they working towards the liberation of “big bads”? No! They have their own goals, their own “agenda” so to speak. They are working for and with Fyrakk… for now! This is an important distinction to make: it is above all a question of an alliance of circumstances here! Contextually speaking, it seems to us to make sense to bring back these characters in order to make them evolve and show what has happened to them since our last meeting with them.”

Katherine Bankson: "The other thing to point out is that the Emerald Dream is a druidic realm. Therefore, Fyrakk had to find allies who could lead him into the Emerald Dream, and what allies are better placed to succeed in this task than Druids having a prior convergent interest? The powers of the Primalists are more shamanistic by nature, they could not have allowed him to enter the Dream, the Druids of the Flame are best placed for this precisely because they are Druids.

These two answers failed to address the main concern that prompted the question at all, and that prompted this thread: where did the primalists come from? Who are they beyond mobs we fight (fought!) in the isles and in prepatch? Are they all disillusioned shaman, or are they people pulled off the streets and given powers by the incarnates? If they’re shaman, how are there races without accessible shaman classes among them? Their motivations are paper thin and their origins are nonexistent, but they recruited from among the playable races without any real consistency. It’s even worse, to me, that 10.0 had a relatively engaging night elf primalist character with a ton of potential, but she was killed off during the leveling campaign only for there to be a carbon copy of herself in the 10.0 raid!

I’d have gone so far as to reword the question into why weren’t the primalists druids of the flame to begin with, because it would have served the same narrative purpose but at least not have introduced this SUPPOSEDLY world ending threat that nobody is really taking seriously aside from the dragons themselves.

And this is maybe confirmation bias, and a completely separate issue, but it REALLY feels like the primalist mobs have a much higher percentage to spawn as certain races. I’m a vulpera main myself, and even I can’t help but roll my eyes whenever packs consist of 3 vulpera and a night elf primalists lol. It’s egregious that a race with so little lore was then slapped all over a faction with even less lore.

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There was a recent quest chain added in 10.2.7 regarding a primalist which I feel like was trying to add more primalist backstory but misses on some parts.

Pros:
• The quest chain establishes the fate of some primalists with some defecting back to their main people and others being in hiding awaiting Iridikron
• Get some motivation for one primalist who was upset with the Horde after they burned Teldrassil
• Some level of player choice at the end of the quest chain that I wonder may influence something in a later expansion

Cons:
• The quest chain has no breadcrumb to it I found it indirectly by looking up on wowhead for a new toy I noticed in the toybox that I didn’t have which it starts at Malfurion in Bel’ameth so I’m not sure how many people will see it
• While one primalists reasoning was explained it still does not explain many others particularly ones that are not night elves who had Teldrassil burn
• The hatred of the Horde reasoning for Koroleth seems flimsy as the Primalists aren’t against the Horde specifically just a byproduct of their goals

Since it is implied that the Primalists will return one day, I assume in the Last Titan with iridikron, then I hope at that time they go more into the recruitment methods they use. I’d also like to see what Magatha’s thoughts since Kurog Grimtotem was her prized pupil that was loyal to her.

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