Lore: San'layn - Where Are They Now?

I have an itch in my brain that won’t seem to go away unless I inquire about it. This is a deep dive in lore.

On the stand point of WoW story and the timeline, both the Blood-Queen and Blood-Princess have been killed, which cuts off the San’layn from creating more. In addition, most of them were killed during WotLK. In recent expansions, the last two mentions of San’layn involvements pertained two events: One in BfA, the other in Shadowlands.

In BfA, you had the San’layn try to be employed in the Horde and would have become members if not for the Alliance intercepting and killing them off. But, only Alliance players see this in the BfA war campaign. Horde players do not.

In Shadowlands, A lone San’layn attempted an invasion to Tranquillen by controlling the Scourge from Deatholme. The blood elf Champion would soon kill that San’layn off and what control the San’layn had of the Scourge is disrupted.

From the warcraft wiki, it’s my understanding the San’layn are hated by both Alliance and Horde. The Forsaken’s Desolate Council have no like for them and nor do the Ebon Blade. By affiliation, they are marked as Independent and the Scourge.

With all this said… where are they now?

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You forgot Blood-Thane Lucard in Stormheim! Cause as with a lot of things about the Scourge, they stole abilities and magic whole cloth from the Vrykul. That includes the San’layn.

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Though I’m aware about the small quest in Stormheim involving him, I intentionally excluded Blood-Thane as he does not fall underneath the category of “San’layn” and its more just placed in as a fun little reference to Dracula.

Blood-Thane Lucard does not appear anywhere else before nor after his initial presence, which leads me to believe he should not be taken seriously as a source material.

Furthermore, taken from the WoW wiki: “Vrykul were originally described as “vampiric”. Though this aspect didn’t make it into the game, the Blood-Thane Lucard questline in Stormheim was likely a nod to it, and the San’layn eventually ended up as the vampiric Scourge race.”

I will point out that all of the WoW wikis and similar sites are also fan edited. Be cautious what you want to declare canon/non-canon. I want to point out the Pandaren were a joke inclusion and ended up the genesis for one of the most beloved expansions in this game. That Harrison Jones is a parody/homage to Indiana Jones and he was relevant for a while, notably with Cataclysm, and then in Legion, and the Rambo Guy from Redridge who ended up coming back again in Warlords of Draenor, and again in Battle for Azeroth. We’ve had multiple joke characters and questlines that ascended from Meme to actual, legitimate Lore too many times to just wipe it off the board.

The Murloc who we gave the ‘cursed’ weapons that turned the Pirates the Blood-Thane quests revolve around into actual ‘vampires’ is still running around, and has appeared in Legion, the Battle for Azeroth, the Dragonflight Expansion and again in the War Within, acting as an assistant and vendor for Brann and what remains of his expedition.

If Sir Finley Mrrgglton is still running around and is canon to the story on even a tangetial level, odds are those cursed weapons exist as well, and we probably haven’t heard the last of the ‘Vampires’ of Northrend, or their cursed artefacts that can turn any of the Living into more of their accursed kind.

Blizzard has :horse:-pulled weirder stuff before …


In regards to the vampiric nature, this actually does show up multiple times in the questing experience in Northrend, where Vrykul are capturing living victims to sacrifice to either empower themselves, or to wake up Kin who are still in their ‘stone sleep’. We see this again with the Mogu using ‘anima’, which is a blood-like fluid rich in life force and magical essence that they extract from slaves and prisoners, to fuel their constructs, awaken stone servants and even revive their own dead and fuel the darkest kind of flesh-warping sorcery to attempt to revive their Empire.

Blood Magic has long been in use amongst the Races of WoW, and its not just Trolls, Vrykul and Mogu who practice it. It was often regarded with open hostility and suspicion, and Dalaran quasi-outlawed it because it was too dangerous and had diminishing returns compared to ‘normal’ Sorcery, but it had a level of flexibility and utility that the ‘pure’ Arcane magics lacked, including healing and longevity applications to the caster and their allies. Many Sin’dorei turned to Blood Magic during the reign of Kael’thas and the destruction of the Sunwell because it enabled them to feed on the latent magical energies within all living things to sate their addiction to magic, but most also abandoned it once the Sunwell was renewed because of the dangers inherent in this style of ‘Sorcery’.


In regards to the San’layn as a species or a force within WoW currently, they were very few in number even during Arthas’s reign as the Lich King, and the Murder Hobos Azerothian Florida Man Honster Mumpers Player Characters absolutely shredded the majority of those during their assault on Icecrown Citadel to steal a dead horse from the Lich King. A few would show up again, during the Battle for Azeroth as clandestine allies to the Banshee Queen, but their involvement was short-lived and bitter, as the Alliance murdered most of them and the Horde was quick to oust them again as soon as the Banshee Queen crashed out after getting her receipts called out by Saurfang at the gates of Orgrimmar, and we’ve only encountered a few others running around as individuals, namely in the Sin’dorei Heritage Questline, where a lone San’layn had stolen magical techniques from the Shadowlands to ‘cheat’ Death no matter how many times the Sin’dorei Champion beat him into pavement pulp, and off-hand references to ‘Scourge Warlords’ from the Death Knight NPCs in Shadowlands.

San’layn took a lot of effort to transform, and the only individuals seemingly able to make more with any real efficiency were the Lich King himself, and their dread queen, Blood-Queen Lana’thel, who we re-deaded after some inappropriate biting on her behalf. Its not to say that she couldn’t have been resurrected, given she was a unique San’layn who possessed wings and a vampiric bite that allowed her to grant the same kind of mad blood-thirst that we see displayed by the victims of Blood-Thane Lucard’s ‘curse’ in Legion.

However, in the case of the Blood-Thane, it was his weapons that transmitted the curse, and through that curse, the Blood-Thane Vrykul could manipulate, to a certain degree, those who had plundered his tomb, trying to use them to sate his own need for blood, but he underestimated the frenzy of his ‘spawn’ and they infected, rather than fed on, their fellows and resulted in a massive amount of ‘Vampirates’ running around, affected by the sun, their blood-thirst and the trauma of the influence of the Thane on their minds and generally swinging between bouts of mania, gibbering terror, rare bouts of lucidity where they tried to get rid of the cursed ‘treasure’ and an obsession with staying near the Tomb of the Blood Thane despite having perfectly functional ships with which to sail away at any time.

Assuming there are still San’layn with any real power still left in the setting, they are hamstrung by the fact that, by their very nature, they are Blood Magic users. Its not to say they cannot use other forms of magic given time, training and macguffinite assistance, but their nature as an Undead and one that must feed on blood to sustain their corporeal forms means that every San’layn requires a ‘herd’ of the living to drain from, if not cull periodically to feed and empower themselves. Multiple San’layn without a clear leader and a large stockpile of living servants and slaves to feed on would rapidly come to blows, and few living Sin’dorei or Ren’dorei would willingly undergo whatever ritual that is required to become a San’layn, with the Sunwell restored and Undeath being a torment and a curse, both to the Alliance as a religious issue, and the Horde having had Forsaken as allies for years, and both Mega-Factions having to deal with Death Knights amongst their ranks for years.

That said, San’layn are physically beautiful, powerful, and maintain a strong magical prowess even in Undeath, even if they were not magic-wielders in Life. For an Elf who is dying or who fears death, or whose hunger for power outstrips their fear of damnation or being ostracized, seeking out a San’layn to learn the secrets of the transformation process could be on the books.

Or, more darkly, the San’layn may not know how to make more of themselves. The Lich King obviously knew how, and the Blood-Queen Lana’thel certainly had an infectious bite and enough knowledge of both Blood Magic and Necromancy to resurrect her three strongest lieutenants to fight us in Icecrown Citadel, but the Scourge wasn’t exactly a happy funtime place where everybody got along and worked together. With the Lich King gone and replaced by Bolvar on the Frozen throne, the Blood-Queen smacked like an overfull mosquito and the few Scourge who were able to maintain their free will against Bolvar’s dominion, or who went rogue after the Helm of Domination was disenchanted by Sylvanas, odds are they just ran to try and get enough distance to ‘mute’ any future attempts to dominate their wills to any future Lich Kings, and the secrets of raising the specific types of ‘High’ Undead such as Death Knights, San’layn, Liches and Frost Wyrms was either lost or became known only by a handful of individuals.

The Death Knights we raised during Legion, and again at the end of the Battle for Azeroth, were only possible because Bolvar had made a pact with the Death Knights of Archerus and was willing to raise willing souls into the eternal service of protecting Azeroth from all possible threats. Lichdom is possible even for individual Mages, Sorcerers and Wizards, but even then, the process has a hideous mortality rate if you are not trained in the ‘correct’ method of binding the spellcaster’s soul to their phylactery, and Frost Wyrms are shockingly rare to find and exceedingly powerful even when raised from young and ‘teenage’ Dragons.


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There are several in my account, at least :smiley:

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This response, I can not thank you enough for.

While I completely understand that there are many people who want to delve into that side of role-play and have San’layns within their arsenal of characters- it really is hard for a newer player like myself to decipher what is TRUE lore, and what is lore that is being bent or just straight up broken. Then to watch people who follow lore and role-play their characters accordingly - get chastised on such a deep level simply because their character is lore-abiding?
Ex: A SMC guard wanting to attack a San’layn on sight in SMC- then getting berated IC/OoCly for it? Talk about confusing.

I deeply understand there are many missing pieces of WoW lore, or I’m at least being told this by those who are veterans at the game. Yet when it comes to the ‘darker’ and ‘well, we don’t really know where they are now’ kind of characters - many run with it and make up their own lore and call it canon. (I guess that is where the ‘fan edited’ part comes in that you stated earlier in your response.)

I have no qualms with people that want to rp things like that. Let the imagination flow to your hearts content!

Yet, at least put a note somewhere to let people who want to know real lore that ‘hey, this character is not lore-friendly.’ That allows the lore-abiding people, or those that wish to abide by the lore as best as we can, to not approach and not cause IC/OoC issues.

Are there any recommendations of reliable lore coverage on yt that you know of?

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There are 2 unknown status / alive San’layn Princes who remain, particularly within the regions of Silverpine Forest. At least that was their last known whereabouts. Princes Altherann and Theraldis are still out there - somewhere, and both led the ritual to raise Arugal.

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I was going to give a serious answer but Gentarn beat me to it.

I want to give a silly answer but the best I have is I have them all, they’re in my basement.

Jokes aside, San’layn haven’t had the best of times in recent years so whoever is left is very likely keeping a low profile for the sake of self-preservation.

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I imagine they are laying low. The “Scourge warlords” in Northrend is basically a blank placeholder to introduce or bring back anything Blizzard wants. So as soon as they want a new prince or whatever will pop up.

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Strictly speaking, given how rare they are and how disastrous their attempt to be incorporated into the Horde ended up for them, it’s entirely possible the canonical San’layn have gone to ground in the quieter areas of Azeroth, biding their time.

Heck, The War Within actually gives us insight into the ability of mages to create little pocket dimensions where they can carry out studies away from prying eyes/mitigate damage caused. Were I a San’layn currently on Azeroth, I’d nope into one of these spaces for a few hundred years until the Murder Hobos were gone.

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Actually, this would be a rather terrifying threat when you think about it. These pocket dimensions can be tied to objects, which can then be carried around from location to location, and there’s the ability to teleport objects and people into and out of these pocket dimensions.

Presumably, magical coercion, domination or control could also be transmitted through whatever opening between the Pocket Dimension and the Outside World exists, and you could end up with a San’layn just quietly inserting themselves into a travelling merchant band, spending their time in a pocket dimension, using the mobile nature of their ‘thralls’ to keep their predations spread out, storing captured prisoners and would-be bandits within the Pocket Dimension to both feed upon and sustain their magical powers, and through a combination of mental domination via magic, putting scrying sensors on inconspicuous parts of the wagons and/or within simple jewellery or adornments worn by the merchants and their drivers, guards and labourers, maintain a constant surveillance of their little mobile kingdom.

And who is going to put all the time, effort and magical whoo-haw into investigating a merchant group selling basic necessities? A small family organisation that deals exclusively in basic supplies, simple necessities like salt and preserved foods, and simple tools isn’t going to be fingered when whole groups of bandits just vanish off the face of Azeroth, or vagrants start to go missing, or the beggars and the homeless start whispering about a pale Elf, wrapped in blood-red and midnight-black silk emerging from the darkness with long white fangs and pitiless eyes, to drag their friends away into the shadows.

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Immediately raises a red flag with SI:7 and the Horde’s counter-intelligence counterpart.

Outside Kul’Tiras, last official line is the Alliance economy is in utter tatters. There’s no small family of merchants operating - because things are so dire the farmers are opting to start over on AU Draenor.

Horde-side…you think the Horde has any independent Merchants in the wake of the Bilgewater? There’s probably at least a 20% operating fee anywhere in Horde territory.

Nah, my guess is the San’layn are operating in the deepest, furthest shadows they can find. Probably aren’t even risking going after bandits because if either the Alliance or Horde catches wind of it, they’re going to bring in the Argents if they’re lucky - the Ebon Blade if they aren’t.

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I will point out this was before the time-skip to Dragonflight, and while we are told things are still dicey at this point, both politically and economically, there’s the Dragonscale Expedition bringing trade back onto the table between the Alliance and the Horde, and all the regions we’ve visited over the past 20 years.

I wouldn’t say a ‘boom’, but we’re likely crawling back from the knife edge of total economic collapse into hunter-gatherer levels of trade here.

I mean, so long as the Cartel’s getting their cut and nobody is raising a fuss, why ruin a good thing? And hey, this merchant convoy doesn’t need as many guards because they rarely get touched, so why not shift guards around to other, more dangerous cargo and merchant convoys who need the assistance?

On a more nuanced scale, I can’t see the Cartel having carte blanche to just take over the Horde’s economic structures, but I definitely see them as aggressively pushing to take a leading role, especially under Gallywix’s control. With Gazlowe in the lead since … the end of the Battle for Azeroth? Meaning that there’s likely been five years plus of a fairer, more partnership-based push by the Bilgewater Cartel with their rivals and counterparts, since Gazlowe understands a hostile work environment doesn’t produce ‘winners’, it produces dysfunction, disloyalty and sociopathic employees and hyper-corrupt management.

I am actually interested in that point, however. Just how deeply is the Bilgewater Cartel entrenched in the Horde’s economic sphere at this point? Would they have been allowed to push into the critical areas without push-back, or were they strictly controlled into what they could and could not have controlling interests in? Gallywix, under Garrosh and Sylvanas, would certainly have pushed for a stranglehold on vital trade-goods and infrastructure, but under Gazlowe, and the Horde Council wanting a more balanced leadership structure within their ‘New Horde’, I can’t see the Bilgewater having undisputed control over every industry and profession within the Horde.

Definitely. And the easiest place for something dark and spooky to hide is in the light. You’re not going to look for a Necromancer in a day-care center. You’re not going to look for an axe-murderer amongst the hospital staff. And keeping mobile, sticking to a humble front for their operation and spreading out their predation over a larger area, sticking to those nobody is going to miss, and those nobody wants around, is only logical for a San’layn, or any other evil sort, who knows they’re S.O.S. with 99% of the rest of the world.

How often is a mage going to interact with a caravan dealing in table salt and iron farm tools, and be actively scanning for odd magical auras and energies while doing so? An SI:7 agent might be interested in checking to see if the group is working with bandits, ie bribes and smuggling, to avoid being attacked, but there’s so many fires to put out and it would be at the bottom of the list of important things to deal with.

That was one of the things brought up in Dragonflight, and again in the War Within with the Campaign missions, is that neither the Horde nor the Alliance has a standing army of any great size anymore. Between the meat-grinder that the past few years have been, the economic devastation of constant wars with horrendous attrition rates and magical and industrial pollution of the bread-basket areas of both the Alliance and Horde, and how most non-military industries got decimated back to mom-and-pop stores and individual craftsmen and -women, they simply can’t field a large army at will to go deal with issues, and most soldiers likely either got let go because they couldn’t be paid (which raises a whole other, new and more terrifying issue with banditry and resentment against the Alliance Leadership/Horde Council by trained soldiers with access to magic, weapons and armor …) or were shuffled off to guard duty as ‘light’ duties after the trauma of so many conflicts, and because while the armies were off committing war crimes against each other, we had militias and skeleton units of footmen and grunts protecting villages and towns who were surrounded by Quillboar, Gnolls, Bandits and monsters of all descriptions.

It took Thrall and Jaina months to ferry enough soldiers to Dornogal because without Dalaran, we no longer had a functional magical nexus that would allow us to open the kind of portals that would allow hundreds, if not thousands, of soldiers, support staff, supply lines and war-beasts to be immediately dropped off right next to the battle, ready to go. And that’s not including the stupidity that Marran Trollbane was getting up to in Arathai, and other, similarly pants-on-head level of dumb other groups and factions were dealing with trying to wrangle enough troops to supply to the war effort.

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Just aggressively flash backed to WarCraft 3 and Kel’Thuzad:

“Ten thousand gold a year in child care and they call it a Cult!”

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I was wondering if anyone else would get that reference.

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In the lore hole, until next we need to demonstrate how bad a villain is.