This is a concept for RP that has been a toss up for some time. In Mists of Pandaria, the Grand Empress Shek’zeer, posessed by the Sha of Fear, led the mantid against the pandaren. A party of adventures disposed of her making way for the next empress.
Eventually, her replacement Grand Empress Shek’zara allied with the Old God N’zoth to assault the Vale of Eternal Blossoms again resulting in her demise as well.
Now it is unknown who, if there is one, will be her successor to continue leading the Mantid. Despite this they still remain a culture/empire on Pandaria and a threat to other living creatures.
My question is,
Should the Mantid be wiped out or written as an almost wiped out culture?
Or would they be worth preserving and endure despite their actions?
My pros/cons for this are as follows:
Cons
They are an old god race and their extermination would be a breath of relief on Azeroth.
They would not be a constant reminder of fear and war for the Pandaren race.
Their lands would no longer be a battlefield cycle after cycle.
Pros
They are a race that should not be at fault for their faith having been born on Azeroth.
They are a necessary evil to keep the Pandaren alert and a constant teacher.
Their culture and history is still a vital part of pandaria.
With the threats of the Old gods (minus what is to come in TWW) eradicated what allegiances could/would they pursue?
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There’s a part of Emperor Shaohao’s journey where, when he reached transcendence and seeks to shield Pandaria from the sundering, he initially fails because he thought to exclude the mantid from protection. Yu’lon reveals that the mantid are just as much a part of the land as the Pandaren are, which is a truth that I guess can be seen in how the Mantid tend to the Kypari Trees in western Pandaria.
Wiping out the Mantid in totality might have unforeseen consequences for the rest of the continent. What those would be is anyone’s guess. But more than this, I think the Pandaren themselves would outright reject the total annihilation of anyone, even the likes of the Mogu- it just isn’t their way at all.
But beyond that, I don’t think wiping out the Mantid right now is even remotely feasible with the scale of what’s happening in TWW and Midnight. Not with the events of TWW being focused on the Isle of Dorn and the subterranean realms contained therein. Taking the time to firebomb the Dread Wastes into oblivion would be strange.
But more than anything else, I think the Mantid are non-threats with what’s to come for one reason primarily. TWW Spoilers: Which is the fact that the Nerubians within TWW are not Old God aligned. In fact, according to the stuff on the beta they view worship of the Old Gods as heresy, anything related to them is a resource they mean to exploit rather than objects and figures of worship. This, in turn, raises questions about Xal’atath’s intent given the nature of her partnership with them. This runs entirely in contrast with the M.O of the Mantid, who idolize Yshaarj and believe the Old Ones will remake the world for the mantid.
If anything, the Mantid could join up with the Alliance/Horde in the most tenuous alliance of convenience possible. Not to oppose the Old Gods per say, but to oppose the Void that would consume everyone indiscriminately, bug or not.
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I don’t think the mantid should be wiped out, but there is a question on how their generational knowledge is being passed down with most of their paragons dead and with two failed empresses/consequent failed broods. I do agree that an alliance of necessity with the other mortal races of Azeroth would be necessary for the mantid to thrive in their current state - and I do want them to be able to. They’re the closest thing any of us have to understanding the Aqir and their history, and it’s such a disappointment how they were written out.
I don’t particularly disagree with having the paragons as raid bosses, but I do think it should have been written differently, considering their end goal was the preservation of the mantid in totality. Throwing their lot in with the guy who straight up sold their god’s heart doesn’t really align with how the Klaxxi felt prior to that particular beat.
But there’s nothing to be done about that and it was how it was written, I suppose. I guess without the paragons or an empress placed by them in control, there’s the possibility for the mantid to achieve a tenuous alliance of convenience with the rest of Azeroth - the pandaren specifically - and perhaps commonality could form from that.
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I remember in Warcraft 3, how Anu’barak claimed that the manifestations of the old gods they saw in the tunnels, how he thought they were nothing more than a legend; Supporting that fact in which they have no ties to the Old Gods.
The Nerubians were of course good considering their gratitude upon slaying of the false king, even their response during the isle expedition drop quests.
I had pondered if any of the Mantid were inherently good or atleast a few could be. When you recall the questline for the Klaxxi it seemed they were supportive to the “wakener”; but in truth they only saw him/her as a “Tool” to stop the empress and aid their efforts. Their aid was just a mutual understanding to resolve the situation, nothing more.
I like to think that even as a enemy, returning the corpses of the fallen paragons from Orgrimmar is a sign of respect, towards the Mantid. Whether they would appreciate the gesture is anyone’s guess.
How long can the mantid survive without a queen is another situation to ponder. Like bees in a hive. (“And this was another great day of saving the bees.” - Texas lady on Facebook.)
Personally i am in agreement that the mantid should survive. Whether blizzard realizes that and keeps them for future situations is another manner.
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The Mantid are the unnatural descendants of the entirely artificial and unnatural Aqir, who were created from the seeping pus matter of the Old Gods, just like the Faceless Ones were. Their very existence is parasitic to Azeroth. They do not belong on this world and should be exterminated to the last. Yu’lon, Shaohao, and all of the other figures of Pandaria were entirely wrong when they said that the Mantid were a part of Pandaria. Entirely wrong.
Furthermore: The Mantid clearly serve the Old Gods and the Void. Even more so than the Nerubians or Qiraji do. And they are positively eager to do so. They didn’t just hop on the chance to serve Y’Shaarj’s heart, they just as easily hopped on the N’Zoth bandwagon as well. Proving that they have no idealistic loyalty to Y’Shaarj. They just want the Old Gods to win. They want this world blackened and corrupted and destroyed. And as such, they have earned their destruction as the hands of the Children of Azeroth, which they decidedly are NOT.
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My zandalari former prelates says we should squash em. And he used to fight alongside some.
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The Mantid can be seen as a necessity which was the sweeping scythe of pandaria. They instilled a sense of fear and dread in Pandaren culture . You can look at the history of pandaria and see how every element that was the result of their existence as being vital.
What would Pandaria be like without the mantid after the sundering or even before? Would pandaren still be slaves to this day? There would be no purpose for a Wall so where would the pandaren gain their strengths? Would the mogu be an even greater threat?
True for without the mantid the Saurok may not have been created, but what if something more vile was made and released against the known world. What would that do to every other culture in existence? Would the Mogu expand and conquer the world? Would they be wiped out so this saurok/other race rules us? Would the night elves even exist?
And if they were wiped out during/after the sundering?
Would the Pandaren overpopulate? Would the Sha have been released sooner due to overpopulation and war? Would the Sha have enslaved Pandaria into a war country ready to conquer the rest of the world? What cultures of the different races exist or survive to this day?
They do serve the old gods but how many other races also serve them in turn? Humans, Tauren, Dwarves, Elves? Do they not willingly serve in the twilight hammer or other cults? Should we not then just exterminate all other races as well because they risk being corrupted just to serve and darken the world? Are elves not the ones responsible for the very sundering of the world?
All things serve a purpose one way or another. We must ponder the ramifications before we enact a plan that results in the extermination of our own existence.
…
Meditate on this.
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You mention a lot about extermination. From what we’ve seen in Pandered society, that philosophy would be entirely frowned upon. There is a balance that comes from it in a sense, and the Mantid are a key part of it. Yes, they swarm every few years. Taran Zhu mentions this even during quests, and that the swarm we saw in MoP was early and odd.
They serve(d) the Old Gods, yes, as do many races that we’ve seen throughout. The Mantid are descendants that specifically evolved from the Aqir, just as the Nerubians and Qiraji did. I do doubt Blizzard will visit Pandaria again, which may be for the best with how some recent lore decisions/stories have been. The Mantid are one of my favorite races from Pandaria because they are genuinely what I think of when I hear insectoids. Swarming, short-ish lifespans, hivemind-like even.
Back to the point: Even the Klaxxi were evil, they killed the Empress only because she was doing things incorrectly/too early. All the Mantid worshipped/served Y’Sharaaj in the end, and their society is based around it. They are probably still waiting for his return. We saw Grand Empress Shek’zeer in Battle For Azeroth, pledging the Mantid to N’Zoth and attacking the Vale. While she was killable, we don’t know if she properly died then, if she did I have no doubt a new Princess or Grand Empress is climbing to the throne or already on it.
They’re a unique race, that is most certainly true.
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Do not worry, personally i support the mantid but was curious what others would think is a sound choice. I believe the mantid are a necessary evil because of what they represent to the Pandaren culture and way of life, teaching them the value of life itself.
As some may say, even the cockroach in all its disgusting glory still serves many uses and is a common treat in other countries. Candied cockroach, or its used in Chinese medicine.
Spoiler Alert: Some cosmetics are made from cockroaches (lab bred so don’t faint).
…
Meditate on this.
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I thought a lot about it, and I think it’s an icky bug and I will burn it if it gets ideas above its station.
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I think you are wrong, Keoshi. I don’t think the Mantid have been in any way good for the Pandaren. Beyond just killing them in vast numbers during their centennial swarms, the Mantid have made the Pandaren lazy. Lazier than before. They live in the lushest land in the world with their only enemies kind enough to attack on schedule every 100 years. Predictable and easily ready to defend against. This has contributed to the constant stagnation of Pandaren culture. They have no standing army, they are never on guard for any attack save for once every hundred years. The Mantid are not making the Pandaren stronger, but weaker, and more dependent.
The Mantid had literally nothing to do with the Pandaren revolution, and the rest of your points are based solely upon supposition and speculation. The fact remains that they are servants of the Old Gods/Void and servants of the Old Gods get killed. Righteously so.
Any who renounce the Old Gods and Void may be spared the Mantid Purge.
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Pandaria was an enclosed ecosystem in a manner. They do have an army of-a-sort through the might of the Shado-Pan. Not like a huge army (might of the Alliance) but it was still a standing force enough to combat any threat on the island and to lead the defense of each cycle.
When you face two threats, one that strikes from above every hundred years, and one that remains below feeding off every negative emotion, they would become stagnant as a nation.
You literally have to live happy and content (if you get angry the Sha will get you, if you are sad the Sha will get you, if you live jealous of others the Sha will get you).
Their culture had no need to rise beyond the current level because of no war or need to strive for better. Things were a consistent pattern for all. If anything made them dependent, it was the actions of the Alliance or Horde to interfere, even when the Pandaren did not want them in their lands.
They even would be forced to live with a controlled population concept or the use of an enemy that keeps their population down (The Mantid would fit that bill without resorting to internal war - Pandaren against Pandaren). Hence how the mantid are a vital evil.
Because of the mists and with no access to other landmasses Pandaria was a prison. Exile isn’t in their nature to the mercy of the unknown beyond the mists.