ok you are using semantics… its a PET they have abilities that can you can use. They are built around using them in various specs… thus pet classes… pretending otherwise just makes you look childish
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No, he’s talking thematics, because thematics is what led to survival being differentiated from marks by a complete rework in the first place.
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Funny.
Just ran a 5 man and had a fury warrior saying that Survival looked like a lot of fun to play, lol
Guess it IS fun to play.
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I like this troll.
/Werewolf hugs
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speak for yourself
Wait…wut?
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Are you sure about this? Arms is doing very well in PvP and M+
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sorry…just realized you mean the RACE troll, not being derogatory
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Purely from a rotation perspective in a raiding context; Can I understand what makes SV or MM more complicated than BM?
Besides having less buttons to press than the other two specs, the biggest difference is that while BM can do all of it’s damage from far away while moving, MM has to stand still to cast Aimed Shot and Survival has to be in melee range to do optimal DPS.
Mechanically it’s honestly more complex than MM, but Survival has Mongoose Bite stacks and (depending on the content) the different Wildfire Infusion bombs to keep track of.
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- Coordinated Assault = AotW (2 min CDs, extended/cd reduced by traits/talents)
- Mongoose Bite = Barbed Shot (Juggling Bite/Frenzy stacks)
- Kill Command (Both on CD)
- Serpent Sting = Cobra Shot (Used with conditions, not spammed)
- Volatile Bomb = Bestial Wrath (Not quite the same, but both get reduced by traits and used on CD with some conditions)
Let me know if I’m missing something. I enjoy the hunter class in general and will play whatever spec performs best for the raid team.
Personally, looking at some of the top BM players with perfect parses; near 100% on 3X frenzy. I’m still trying to improve towards that and don’t think it’s easy 
not being able to just stand at 40 yards away from the danger?
‘context’ includes the entire package.
Exactly.
Few specs in this game have complex rotations. Its more about things like having slower cast times, having to be in melee range where all the crap effects happen like the dungeon I just ran, etc.
BM can fire while moving and has plenty of defensive abilities and never needs to get into melee.
MM is ranged, but its slower than molasses.
SV doesnt have a lot more going on, actually would like to see another filler ability for a well rounded rotation…but having to fight in combat with little or no more defensives than the range specs makes it a lot more interesting to play.
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Rotation aside, I think the challenge difficulty with range or melee is a valid one but also opens up a different kind of discussion that would involve all melee Vs all range.
Personally I stand in melee range on some raid fights because it’s easier or because of mechanics.
Example: Maut’s knock back, Shad, Carapace in some phases to name a few
Don’t get me wrong though, I do enjoy playing all 3 specs and feel that SV needs a buff in damage to be more competitive in raids. MM on the other hands needs to be more mobile!
I just don’t think any of them are more complicated than the other to play but all can be challenging in their own right when going for a >95% parse
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The person you were responding to almost certainly was not. Almost no one here has any sort of reference as to what class balance at level 60 looks like, especially when you add enchants to the mix. It’s a level range most people pass in literal minutes. And most people who go into low-level content decked out in heirlooms find themselves destroying the damage meters for the simple fact that most people do not do that. It does actually take time and a fair bit of money to get those heirlooms and some of them are especially exclusive (I’m a proud owner of the Dread Pirate Ring).
There is no “math” here; there’s just subjective feeling from looking at the numbers. It’s literally impossible to derive anything meaningful about class balance from levelling content. Throughout the years I’ve taken quite a few low-level toons through low level content, and I’ve blasted the DPS meters each and every time. It’s not because I’m such an amazing player or anything; It’s because I’m taking a maxed-out catalog of heirlooms and I’m actively pressing buttons, which is more than what can be said about the majority of others at those low levels.
It could really be the case that Survival Hunter is doing substantially more damage than literally everything else on top of that. It was one-shotting people in the 10-20 brackets last expansion with Flanking Strike. But that’s pretty doubtful at level 60 and it certainly doesn’t last all the way to level 120.
Uh, no. I’m not obliged to just accept bad changes because “oh well things change all the time”. Blizzard is not an unpredictable force of nature. It’s a team of real people who are, or at least should be, capable of knowing when they’ve made a mistake.
I’m not sure what you’re arguing here. If you’re legitimately doubting that SV isn’t blowing everything else out of the water at max level like your Hunter is at level 60 there are plenty of objective data out there to demonstrate it.
They are not pets in the same way as Hunter pets, but they are still pets.
Saying “Survival is the only melee spec that has ranged capability that isn’t a pet – if you don’t count Unholy DK because it doesn’t have as much ranged capability and its pet is a zombie instead of an animal” doesn’t quite have the same ring to it.
Cool story. If you like ranged weapons and you don’t like the way MM does it, you better really like pets or you’re SOL. It’s just a bit ridiculous that there are melee players out there that truly believe they should have ranged specs stolen away and given to them because none of the other 12 melee specs fit precisely want they want down to the most minute details.
Serpent Sting and Wildfire Bomb are the only truly unique parts of SV right now. The fact that they don’t mesh well with being melee should tell you that being melee is the problem, not those abilities.
For the record, I really think it would be a good idea if there were some BM melee option, such as a talent that swaps out the ranged weapon stuff for melee weapon stuff for a damage boost. But I don’t think any Hunter spec should be forced to be melee in the baseline and I especially don’t think Survival should be that spec. It’s not a good fit for the spec’s historic identity and every single melee Hunter archetype leans heavily on pets to begin with. I think it’s crazy how SV Hunters are so in favour of SV being a different variety of BM (and yes, that truly is what “companion rather than master” amounts to) given all the time they spent arguing ranged SV and MM were too similar.
Correction: people who had zero understanding of Hunter thematics led to that.
Plus now Survival is literally stealing stuff from BM so how did this “thematic differentiation” work out?
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To refute one of your earlier insinuations…I just started a new SV hunter…not even remotely geared yet. Hit level 30 and took the Butchery talent and now topping the DPS charts yet again.
It IS the spec/class…not just the fact that my other character was sporting enchants.
Ive played every class in this game. I know the game isnt balanced at 60 the same as it is at 120…but your apparent view that the game is SO unbalanced at 60 that SV is a demi god compared to other classes/specs is laughable at best
yeah…its not TUNED content…but if ANY spec had an UNFAIR advantage blizzard would nerf it into pond goo and we all know it.
please stop wasting my time with this joke that SV has some advantage low level and is entirely unplayable at max. I dont buy that for a second.
What are you playing, friend?
SS and Wildfire bomb are so ‘meh’ that Ive comboed them on a single macro and topping the charts in 5 mans every single time…WITHOUT enchants and gems this time around.
Maybe thats why you dont think SV is very good…youre playing it wrong.
Butchery, Kill Command and Raptor Strike are mopping the floor with enemies…the other two are just filler
It sounds like youre trying to force SV to be a RANGED ONLY spec and it obviously isnt.
give me a break. its a hunter CLASS. there are going to be similarities and same abilities between them to some degree.
Lord…just dont play SV…problem solved.
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Time to move on. Clinging to the past or things you’ve lost only brings you misery. Pretty a lot of life lessons says so. Instead of being sad, go out there and seek what makes you happy.
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guy doesnt even know what he’s talking about.
The Spec is freaking awesome to play and does just fine in group content.
He’s clearly not playing it right and thats likely why he’s not impressed.
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Apparently this was a problem for RSV going into Legion from WoD(even though it and MM did not really share much at all in terms of core abilities).
But it no longer is a problem? For spec design today that is.
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well if theme for you does not matter then there’s no difference between casters and hunters specs
and yet it does not fit the theme.
Your words not mine.
If nothing fits my taste why should I play?
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every car I see on the road has tires. Not all of them have a GPS system and other items unique to some car models.
Mine doesnt. and its just fine.
As i said…its a hunter CLASS. Its ok for some of the utility to cross borders between specs.
I honestly dont know what their complaints are.
Hunter has gotten intersting to me again with a spec NOT being solely ranged and having a little personality to it.
If it aint working for them, My guess is they are trying to force it to be a ranged spec by over using serpent sting and under utilizing Raptor Strike…and also not taking Butchery as a talent (which Id like to see as a spell and off the talent row, personally)
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