Your ‘level’ doesn’t impress me at all. Are you just trolling today?
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I’m running out of binds, so are other people. Sorry you don’t understand why we need the binds we need. Attacking someone’s situation about this isn’t really productive.
Everyone has their own limits on binds; it’s a spectrum in the game. I feel shadow is too bloated at this point. I helped a guy who plays one handed barely scrape by on existing spells in the game. That’s one extreme, meanwhile I need pots, embrace, purge, fear etc on binds. It’s unfair of YOU to tell people what is important vs not for keybinds.
If we add a spell to shadow it needs to SOLVE A PROBLEM, a ST dot inside VF (which is where I had a problem with it) doesn’t justify design space. It needs to do more for the pain points of shadow to make that bind worth it.
I’m sorry but I disagree and here’s why.
Can yes, but usually it does not. Because people know that when a Priest starts popping off, bodies start piling up.
My entire goal in my Bg’s and RBG’s and even in Area (espically if a Priest is on the other team) was to simply not die or not die before the other priest etc. I knew I was going to be targeted first, I played around that fact. With builds of old shadow, you can support this idea / playstyle. With Void shadow you cannot because you have to be able to cast stuff for a bit in order to do any actual damage. Then once you able to go in Void Form, BAM silence or BAM stun or BAM feared etc. and there goes your void form.
I just jumped on my priest last night and just went to go kill some mobs. It felt AWFUL. its so bad. I don’t have any borrowed powers that affect the spec. Just legendary and set bonus from Legion and that STILL feels horrible to play with compared to Pre Legion’s Void Form introduction. Borrowed powers in that situation is not the issue.
Take off your “borrowed powers” and go play the spec. It feels horrible. So again, Its not a borrowed powers issue. Its a core issue that the borrowed powers only highlight the problem, not create it.
I don’t want to be balanced around having a constant CD aka “Form” I need to get into ALL the time in order to do damage. Everyone else can pop some buttons and they are going FULL 100% damage right at the start.
Hell you cant even use Void Bolt or Eruption until you build up insanity, let alone doing any actual damage from the abilities you CAN use outside of void form. Ramp is bad at its base gameplay level and lets not pretend that blizzard will “Normalize” the other classs / specs to be as weak / equal to shadow. THAT WONT HAPPEN. That’s why Shadow needs to be restored to its former self in some fashion.
That is an on demand active able CD. If mages had to cast x amount of spells and then the rune of power is forced to be used because they want to cast a big damage spell, then that would be more accurate of a compassion but still not quite because they have the CHOICE of using rune of power. They can just pick something else entirely if they LOATHE it to bits. Regardless if its a DPS loss or not, they can still do more DPS using another option if they know they cant take full advantage of the Rune of Power.
Again, you loose out on a mechanical function in Void Bolt extending dots and just the raw power of able to cast on the move and instantly for extra damage. Getting locks out of Void Form makes it so you literally loose out on the ability to play your spec. No amount of “number” tuning fixes that, that is a core aspect of Void Form.
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I agree DP doesn’t seem to solve any of our problems. My issue is with your suggestion that we’re already bloated on keybinds.
Breath Major fixes this in 8.3; Shadow Word: Death potentially is the shadowlands version but it may need more tweaking to make it work a bit more like breath than it already does. Again; I also mentioned the iris beam being offered as a talent. Imagine having access to both?
No; that’s not true. Mages hit like a wet noodle outside of their cd windows; most BIG CD oriented specs are the same. If VF is the way I described…you are doing way more damage relative to others as the ONLY thing VF is offereing is some haste? Most of which takes a few casts to get?
Why are you saying the spec plays bad because of “borrowed powers” and now you are giving examples of “borrowed powers” to help the spec.
This is inconsistent with your arguments.
If anything, you agree that “borrowed powers” FIXES the issues with that statement.
How do mages activate their CD?
Do they press a button?
If so, then that’s my point… On demand button presses to get MAX DPS.
There are many many different borrowed powers in the game, not all of them are contributing bad things. The idea of feedback threads is to tell which things are bad and which things are really really good that should carry forward with us because they solved issues for us in the current patch.
They have a different set of challenges, they can press one button then get chain stunned and have hardly ANYTHING left of their cd. Meanwhile shadow? we are doing more consistent damage so to be knocked out of VF at 10 stacks hardly has any impact whatsoever. That mage? if 50% of his damage is that CD…it’s easier to screw him.
We started this “borrowed powers” talk because you think the spec works FINE at a base level. With a comment like that, that means you actually think it needs something more.
So I would assume you want “some” borrowed powers baked into the spec? As what? a Talent? or Baseline? Either way, It seems to me that it still goes counter to what your have stated in other statement in various threads. I guess I’ll have to reread them because that is not what I got from them before.
Either way however, giving w/e borrowed powers you want still wont address the core baseline issue that the entire spec revolves around, which is ramp. I have to cast crap spells in order to make crap spells do less crap damage and have access to a decent spell that now once I do have access to, i have to ignore all my utility spells or I get punished. As you have already stated, we have a LOT of spells. I for one am GLAD we have so many options, the issue is the PUNISHMENT for using those spells as you never have a good moment to do so compared to pre void form, you had your “filler” windows in the form of mind flay to use utility in. With Void Form, you gain resources using Mind Flay so that’s not an option anymore either.
If the mage was a priest and cant kite or blink or snare or cast on the move etc. Then sure, valid point. Problem is, they play 2 completely different ways and have ways to prevent / stop a well timed CC if they wanted to. Shadow does not. We just have to take it. Then by the time we can start doing real damage again, the CC is back.
Its like your trying to stand up for the first time and each time you do, your older sister comes running down the hall and close lines you and puts you back on the ground (my sister actually did this to me apparently when i was first learning how to walk lol).
yea, sigh…borrowed power is such a broad term and the discussion points come down to the details which are easily to get lost. I think every priest wants some things fixed with shadow to varying degrees, and that’s the nuance. I want ramp-inflating borrowed power to not carry forward or repeat itself (mass hysteria/coi) as it creates excess ramp to the spec which causes allot of pain by most players. I have a high tolerance with this personally, but I fight for that problem regardless of my personal pov. Ramp isn’t bad, excessive ramp is bad. Excessive ramp comes from the ‘bad’ borrowed powers mentioned, not Voidform itself.
I did try my very best to illustrate how other specs also have SOME weakness and SOME weakness is healthy for a mmo/rpg game. I think the nuance is in finding a healthier implementation as mentioned in the last paragraph above.
We do; but it cost us less. If the mage is locked out of his burst he’s 100% useless. Where we, throw up a few spells back into VF and at 90% damage again without CD wait time? Tbh, I fear the 20% in voidform at start may actaully make us too strong; so perhaps just trust me on this so we can get that pushed through before blizzard realizes we have like near-zero weakness lolz.
If you gave me Void Bolt & Void Eruption outside of Void form, and just let me cast ANY spell in either form and the only thing that changes between the forms is stats then okay I would agree that ramp is not bad as long as its within a decently timed window of lets say a whole dot duration of 15 sec.
So in 15 sec (starting out of combat), my stats get to 100% potential and I always have access to my ENTIRE spell toolkit then I could start to work with that and see how it plays.
Aside from that, nah don’t lock “Rotational” spells behind some gimmick.
Then all I would be loosing is stat enhancements when i get locked out of Void Form instead of half of my spec mechanics.
But if changes like this happened, then Void Form is just like Shadow Form except that its not a passive damage increase, its a variable damage increase. I would argue that you pick a “Void Form” talent that gives you higher “Stat” increase in the form of more damage with Void Form as that is “variable” but at baseline keep Shadow Form as a “Flat” stat enhancer that is 1/2 less then the potential that “Void Form” provides.
So Void Form talent lets you take advantage of “Shadow Form” flat stat enhancements and then you can “activate” void form for additional stat enhancement for its duration. AKA Rune of power that follows you for the duration.
Keep DP as a Spender for non Void Form Talent, and Void Eruption into Void form as a spender when Void Form talent is taken.
Everyone wins.
IF he is locked out. As I mentioned, they can prevent that or flat out stop it. They have Blink and Ice block to get out of CC. They have snares and slows to prevent CC, they have CC to prevent CC lol. They have options.
What do priests have? We have Fade to remove snares? Well that doesn’t prevent or stop an interruption of casting via spell lockout or loss of character control via stun etc.
We can use PvP Trinket sure… but then its not up next time. Mage can use PvP trinket also, and most likely will be up next time they are ready to burst.
Its just not a 1:1 comparison.
sorry; no spec in the game has that. every spec has peaks/valley in dmg; shadow has the least of this effect - even now.
So what is your “ideal” ramp up time frame? and once you “ramped up” how long are you able to stay at that level?
What is balanced / fair to you?
If voidform is giving 20% haste upfront (which takes only a few casts to acheive) and offers 1% per stack the second half of VF isn’t going to give that much more power via haste. like…Imagine if the second half of VF is only like the last 1-5% of you damage at most (I don’t have an exact number without real data about covenants/soulbinds etc and we build a real simcraft around it) But regardless; it’s not much.
I should further add on VF cut short isn’t going to be a full loss of 5% over the entire combat either, the fact VF has no CD also means the recovery is fast. You are not waiting for a 2 or 3 min cd.
So how about this.
Let me refine my little idea I proposed.
- Make Void bolt Baseline usable regardless if your in Void Form or not. OR Make it only usable in void Form only (More on that later).
- Make Void Form a talent that when taken, it replaces Devouring Plague with void Eruption which grants you access into Void Form.
- Balance the potential damage you do in Void Form with Devouring Plague so that they compete with one another and maybe one is only slightly better then the other in terms of single target, burst AOE, steady AOE, Cleave etc.
- If DP hits to hard to make up for its VF damage competition, then this is where Void Bolt should be available baseline in and out of void form and push some of that damage into that.
- Make any/all void form duration talents just add insanity so both DP playstyle and VF playstyle work with same talents.
- Add damage/haste w/e stats you want Void form to have and just balance it with Devouring Plague for the non Void Form folks.
With that, that’s a good start to get 2 playstyles that wont cause massive reworks in the form of changing the resource mechanic and also satisfying both camps of players.
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you lose me at this because…talents are a trap and pigeon hole and a total illusion of choice. Shadow word death was a talent and wasn’t able to play it the entire expansion outside of a few niche cases. It was disgusting that death wasn’t viable on a pure ST patchwerk boss (shad’har) or a highly important execute phase fight like Nzoth or Jaina.
For example, Take Legacy of the Void Talent and just rename it to Void Eruption and because of how Void Eruption works in that it puts you into Void Form, that is your access window to use Void Form. When you pick this talent, it replaces devouring plague.
Precisely. Look at the Azerite traits for spriest: do you see any that buff SW:D? Nope. Do you see any that buff the talent Auspicious Spirits? Yep.
It’s very easy to see that lack of creativity and thoughtlessness by the devs when it came to Azerite traits for spriest.