No guy, maybe thats how it feels to you… But you realize there is a Gigantic amount of people playing classic and tbc on private servers right?
Are you going to tell them they “aren’t really enjoying” classic???
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Their attempts at that have failed miserably, and I think it’s a bad idea to begin with. Once you create a convenience or give a feature you can’t really take it away. For example…flying. Obviously flying shouldn’t be in Classic. If I was designing an mmo I absolutely wouldn’t have flying mounts. But for them to take it out of the game was ridiculous. And the players resisted, and with good reason. They’ve kind of put it back in, but it’s really just an illusion, since you’ll never fly in relevant content. Instead the devs have turned it into a manipulation feature to keep playings p(l)aying to unlock something the devs know the players want. Instead of building content around this feature, it’s just another carrot.
I’ve said many times the more different the games are, the better for both. So…keep the Current WoW convenience-heavy. Hell, go even more ‘casual’. Frankly, I think the existence of Classic gives them the freedom to do that.
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I think “the nostalgic” such as myself, are fully aware of how much we hated certain aspects of the game at the time. Most of probably expect to have a love/hate relationship with those things in the future.
It is a weird quirk in human nature that it tends to be the “stuff that sucks to experience” that is also often the stuff that people remember fondly going forward.
In more than a few cases, people even voluntarily subject themselves to such situations knowing beforehand that “it’s going to suck.”
Classic WoW, TBC, and at least early Wrath had to be sitting well within the “…but its worth it” category or else it wouldn’t have exploded like it did in Vanilla, and continued to do in TBC and into Wrath.
There are large numbers of people who want to be challenged. They don’t want easy street. They want to struggle, even suffer, to at least some degree, before they get their reward. To use a famous quote from JFK, “We do these things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard.”
Retail gave up on making things difficult and time consuming(unless you’re counting waiting for daily quests to reset as “time consuming”), Classic WoW offers these things. Yes, it will become possible to “cheese” things as the various realm servers age, but just because you can “cheese it” doesn’t mean you have to.
In Retail, you have to almost go out of your way to struggle with much of anything, and people are going to think you’re crazy for doing so. On Classic? They’re going to be right there beside you.
If you don’t understand it, that’s fine, Classic WoW probably isn’t intended for you.
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She is a villain to the alliance, not the horde. She is working with the horde… aka just reinforces the horde being evil, alliance being good bland story telling.
Sad Pikachu
![:cry:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/cry.png?v=6" ":cry:")
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She’s not. She’s working with an Old God who happens to also be the enemy of the Horde.
And who are the “evil” Alliance villains?
Katrana Prestor? Daval Prestor? Victor Nefarious? Van Cleef?
While I’m sick of having a musical chairs of Warchief, aside from that position, the Horde isn’t filled with evil villains either. Its just Garrosh and Sylvanus.
From an alliance perspective you can look at the horde and say ok they were/are bad. From the horde perspective you can look at the alliance and say “they are weak”, they cannot defend their lands/repel our invaders, there fore they should move off them or die defending them… orcs were a nomadic people right, clans constantly fought for territory… almost native american stylised? The savagery and different sense of honour.
It was the exploration of the two ways of life conflicting with one another which is what made warcraft awesome. Sure the hordes savagery was exploited by the legion and they lost their sense of honour and became mindless killing machines. Thrall\Grom got it back for us which was the start of WOW, the post redemption arc - how does the horde develop out of that?
In BFA we are just passive in the narrative until whatever plottwist/reveal takes place and ultimately we somehow will revert back to that status quo? It just feels forced and not a natural progression of playing horde.
Its an alliance narrative that the horde playerbase just has to endure (or even worse gets wedged into).
Thats why I love classic better. Its better storytelling, they let you find and participate in your own adventure.
Aedelas Blackmoore was my favourite one.
The horde have no motivation for participating in this war, the pretext in the narrative was, we need to wipe out the alliance because they are intent on wiping out us but no one on the Alliance has shown that at all (Gen Greymane was supposed to be that character as per legion).
The thing that bothers me most of all is Sylvanas is being setup to be the villain. Using Plague and raising dead horde is something that has expressly been forbidden yet now the horde is going along with it (by not opposing it en masse). That should have been the breaking point that splintered the horde, if the narrative made any sense for horde players.
You know the scene from the wow movie where Gul’dan uses fel to drain Durotar and he starts screaming “Gul’dan, you have no honour” - that is the reaction horde should have.
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The Horde was an uneasy alliance between disparate groups as well, IIRC. They weren’t particularly comfortable with the Forsaken being in their ranks for example, but they were deemed a “necessary evil” at the time. But I think Thrall and company were understating exactly how evil the Forsaken actually were. What Sylvannas is doing from the Forsaken standpoint isn’t likely to be far out of bounds for them. The Orcs/Trolls/Taureen on the other hand…
But that’s arm-chair quarterback commentary from a considerable distance removed, I’m not up to speed on the Horde Storyline since about the time of the Cataclysm, beyond what little the Blizzard Cinematic team puts out there.
Based on Warcraft Realms, 30% of the Horde are Blood Elves. 9% of the Horde are Undead. By that logic, it should be an easy task to topple Sylvanus and replace her with a Blood Elf (Lor’themar or someone with a backbone).
Sylvanus is a villain. Not so much ‘set up’ as her ethos is antithetical to all living creatures. If she had her way she’d simply kill every member of the Horde and raise them as Undead. For many years she was held in check by the other Horde leaders, which kept her ambitions controlled.
Why no-one is fighting against her, I couldn’t say, but based on all previous lore, pretty much everyone should be, and she never should have been made Warchief, Vol’jin pointy fingers or no.
Running into people in the world that you paired up with for a quest, or a dungeon previously. I honestly haven’t had that happen since before Lich King.
Thats exactly it… why are they a necessary evil now? What pressure is being exerted from the Alliance that makes these bonds a necessity? Originally Alliance were your xenophobic anything not resembling a human is a monster lets kill/hunt/destroy/imprison it… now they have werewolf and spacegoats and void infused races its like… uh why/how are horde races being oppressed and need to band together to stem the tide of alliance bigotry?
Considering the forsaken started as an offshoot of the scourge which regained sentience during the time he was weakened, the whole point was to value individuality not the hive mentality. Sylvanas was the antithesis of Arthas.
It is literally Garrosh 2.0 something that the players saw early and blizzard swore against.
“Gigantic”… more like a few thousands.
Are they enjoying it? Yeah, probably. Because they are living that part of the game tru the lenses of Nostalgia. Doing the things they could not accomplish back in the day, like clearing Naxx when it was current.
Now, i wanna ask you something: How many times can you level a toon from 1 to 60 in classic, and how many times can you clear the same 4 raids before you can’t even think about doing it again?
For the people that never got to experience Vanilla, or parts of it, i’d say the Classic servers are a blessing! Also for people that maybe wanna re-live some of the experience. But after you’ve done everything, will you realy want to do it all over again right after?
Finaly, Vanilla was not realy Better nor Worse. It was diferent. Based upon personal opinion, it had things that were better, and things that were worse. Maybe you do enjoy having to make the groups yourself, and having to make your way to the dungeon, but then maybe you don’t like how mechanicaly easy the raids used to be. Maybe you like that you HAVE to cc in dungeons, or maybe you hate it, because you just wanna show your dps with those big aoe spells. That’s the key.
Not everybody likes the ways of Vanilla, and some like parts of it. BUT regardless of how you feel, i think is more important to ask: How long can you do the same thing over and over and over till you are bored of it, regardless of how much you love it.
As said, thread blew up lol.
You do realize there is more in Vanilla WoW than just raids? The raids are just the things which require the most coordination to complete successfully.
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Kungen puts it very well in a video where he talks about what’s important in an mmorpg. Basically he says raiding is meaningless. This coming from the raid leader of the #1 guild in Vanilla and first few expansions. I’d link the video, but…the mods might not appreciate some of his language.
People thinking raiding is the end all be all of an mmorpg have just been brainwashed to think that over the years.
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To be clear, the humans were. The first and second war “Alliance” was an alliance between Human kingdoms. In the Third War, those attitudes were broken by the overwhelming necessity to team up with other races, including eventually, the Horde.
They aren’t. Specifically, Anduin wants a reconciliation between Humans of Lordaeron and the Forsaken of Lordaeron. When the group came together, some of the Forsaken started to move towards the Human camp, and Sylvanus assuming they were defecting, killed every single Forsaken and any Humans they could reach, on the field.
Massive overkill and purely driven by paranoia. That’s the Sylvanus that the Alliance now faces. That’s why Anduin attacked Lordaeron, to rescue the Forsaken who he felt are being held prisoner by their own leader.
So what were the Gnomes and Dwarves? Chopped liver? They were part of Warcraft and Warcraft II, both times as members of the Alliance. Well, at least the Dwarves at any rate.
But yeah, they’re “human enough” in a lot of respects. Rather than creatures, such as the walking cows, Trolls and Orcs with tusks on their faces. 
Sorry, yes, the Dwarves of Ironforge in the second war. The First War was just Stormwind vs the Horde. The second war Dwarves and Gnomes were attacked by Blackrock Orcs, and defended their territory. The Dwarves were refugees from Ironforge and the Gnomes were largely not involved, only being useful in their copters but not fighting. The rest of the Dwarves and Gnomes were hold up in Ironforge and Gnomeregan. The “Alliance” was the Council of Seven Nations, sans Perenold and Greymane.
Yeah, her character really has nothing to do post Lich King. Come to think of it thats probably the point wow lore started to nose dive.
Are you sure it wasn’t retaliation for the world tree… (which also makes little sense how it played out). Either Saurfang accepts that the horde annihilation is inevitable and thus the horde need to fight or he doesn’t… this having it both ways narratively is very weak (him organising the entire war effort killing untold numbers of alliance and then sparing Malfurian because plot and thus condemning many many many horde soldiers to death to continue a brutal war campaign, never openly opposing the warchief… yeah everything is just so out of whack).
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