So Lilian Voss' name has been getting tossed around as a potential replacement for Sylvanas for as long as people have hated Sylvanas. Or, in other words, since Cataclysm. And every time there's a laundry list of really good reasons for why it's a terrible idea. It hit me though, I think Voss' current arc has resolved all of those issues. I'm going to take them from the top and list the things that used to be true about her that aren't true anymore, let me know if I've missed any, especially if I've missed any that are particularly relevant.
1. Hates undead.
2. Not Forsaken.
3. Inexperienced.
4. Unstable.
5. Not hostile to the Alliance (I know this one might get some pushback but until they're willing to remove the word War from the game's title, it matters.)
Is there any reason left to not consider her a strong possibility for Sylvanas' successor?
Also hates the Alliance, which is a KEY sticking point with Calia. A Forsaken leader needs to be willing to punch Anduin in the face when push comes to shove.
I'd rather Nathanos, but she's not the worst pick for sure.
Edit: Hilariously we edited in the opposite point to one another at around the same time.
I'd rather Nathanos, but she's not the worst pick for sure.
Edit: Hilariously we edited in the opposite point to one another at around the same time.
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Yeah, I almost put in a second 'pro leader' column, but decided to keep the existing format.
I suppose it's more accurate to say, she isn't hostile to the Alliance, but she doesn't like them, and that's something whatever leader we get needs to have built into them,
For the purposes of faction leadership, I'd say all she needs is to have fighting the Alliance not be out of character. Her rhetoric about Alliance hypocrisy covers that nicely.
LOL no wonder I like Voss so much! She's got that Forsaken caution about humanity that keeps Forsaken alive, but she also hasn't drunk the Sylvanas cult of personality coolaid. Also, she doesn't hate Forsaken ... she disagrees with the way they operate. She also not so subtly hints she was conscripted btw.
She does however seem to give a crap about the undead she raises (either because she was ordered to, with Stone; or she was asked to, by Zelling). Girl goes the extra mile to not only see to their physical well-being, but also their psychological. She's going to earn some serious loyalty points from those she takes care of.
So, in a way she's the pinnacle of the "Free Will" that the Forsaken like to talk about. However, I would prefer that she be a co-leader for the Forsaken. I'd prefer Nathanos ... but only if he's allowed to gain some independence from Sylvie. If he's just going to remain a talking puppet for her while she still leads the Forsaken from the shadows; forget it ... just keep Sylvie. He's worthless if he's just a stooge.
She does however seem to give a crap about the undead she raises (either because she was ordered to, with Stone; or she was asked to, by Zelling). Girl goes the extra mile to not only see to their physical well-being, but also their psychological. She's going to earn some serious loyalty points from those she takes care of.
So, in a way she's the pinnacle of the "Free Will" that the Forsaken like to talk about. However, I would prefer that she be a co-leader for the Forsaken. I'd prefer Nathanos ... but only if he's allowed to gain some independence from Sylvie. If he's just going to remain a talking puppet for her while she still leads the Forsaken from the shadows; forget it ... just keep Sylvie. He's worthless if he's just a stooge.
Nathanos seems more like a leader than Lilian. Plus, she seems to become more unhinged as time goes on, not less.
NuVoss is a good character in my opinion (Still needs the development), and to be honest, i would prefer her to the... light abomination.
I still like the idea of a council, but it's likely not gonna happen.
I still like the idea of a council, but it's likely not gonna happen.
I'd rather Nathanos as replacement. Voss doesn't seem like the one to be able to lead, nor would want to take the responsibility in the first place.
The problem with Nathanos is it's been stated several times that he has zero desire to continue existing if Sylvanas dies (or rather, go into damnation with her as he even thought in Dark Mirror O.o; ), so unless he turns against her I don't see him separating from her.
A former member of the Scarlet Crusade dies, is raised by the Lich Queen and then tries to go back to her former friends and family and is obviously rejected because they hate the undead more than anyone else.
Voss then grabs a giant paint brush and paints the entire human race & the Alliance as hateful meanies who will never love them.
The worst part about Voss is her new shtick is becoming a Forsaken therapist, telling the newly raised Forsaken like Amalia Stone it's to be traitors because their countrymen will shun them.
She concludes her clickable dialogue with "The Alliance deserves to fall because of their cycle of hatred" lol. Such a bland, typical, hypocritical and generic Eastern Kingdoms Horde character.
Voss then grabs a giant paint brush and paints the entire human race & the Alliance as hateful meanies who will never love them.
The worst part about Voss is her new shtick is becoming a Forsaken therapist, telling the newly raised Forsaken like Amalia Stone it's to be traitors because their countrymen will shun them.
She concludes her clickable dialogue with "The Alliance deserves to fall because of their cycle of hatred" lol. Such a bland, typical, hypocritical and generic Eastern Kingdoms Horde character.
If she does become the new forsaken leader I will finaly be able to dance my victory jig. You can't believe the amount of push back I have gotten over the years for saying I expect her to be the most likely replacement for Sylvanas.
6) female. Lets face it, it would be pretty unlikely for Blizzard to replace the only original WoW Horde race who had a female leader with a guy.
know if I've missed any,
6) female. Lets face it, it would be pretty unlikely for Blizzard to replace the only original WoW Horde race who had a female leader with a guy.
11/04/2018 02:32 PMPosted by Roghterremove the word War from the game's title
Just a minor point here. War does not have to mean between the Horde and the Alliance. Just saying, there are a lot things to war with outside of the Blue and Red.
11/04/2018 02:35 PMPosted by DarethyAlso hates the Alliance, which is a KEY sticking point with Calia. A Forsaken leader needs to be willing to punch Anduin in the face when push comes to shove.
Why hate? Wouldn't it be better to have a leader willing and capable of negotiating and working with the other groups for the betterment of his/her people? War typically ends up with both sides worse off. Wouldn't it be better to have someone that saw war as a last resort, and something to be avoided if possible?
11/04/2018 02:38 PMPosted by DarethyI suppose it's more accurate to say, she isn't hostile to the Alliance, but she doesn't like them, and that's something whatever leader we get needs to have built into them,
Again, I say why? All that is really needed is for the next leader to care MORE about the Forsaken/Horde. Sure, that absolutely needs to be a priority. But that can exist without actual hostility towards other nations.
11/04/2018 02:55 PMPosted by ReallyhappyI still like the idea of a council, but it's likely not gonna happen.
Sadly I agree it is unlikely. I do think it would be a far better option. It could be one way to add depth to the Forsaken (less just generic evil that plot armor protects) while still leaving some of that edge.
I could see a nice balance being created with a council. Calia on one side as a herald of the light, pushing towards good/righteous/etc. On the other side perhaps Nahtanos (assuming he survives Sylvanas fall), or someone like him, who is all about shady evil stuff. And in the middle someone pragmatic and more just about the people's well being, and Voss could serve that roll. Allowing for a kind of balance between philosophies without completely losing any of them.
11/04/2018 06:01 PMPosted by MerìngueI could see a nice balance being created with a council. Calia on one side as a herald of the light, pushing towards good/righteous/etc. On the other side perhaps Nahtanos (assuming he survives Sylvanas fall), or someone like him, who is all about shady evil stuff. And in the middle someone pragmatic and more just about the people's well being, and Voss could serve that roll. Allowing for a kind of balance between philosophies without completely losing any of them.
NO CALIA
I hate Calia, the mear concept of her i find revolting! I want Forsaken !@#$ are Forsaken, not this light undead without any of the problems of being undead.
Tired of dark rangers, dont want ne super undead, just want regular joe forsaken to lead the forsaken
Rather it be Nathanos since he's an OG Forsaken and the 2nd in command. This is assuming Sylvanas just leaves and isn't killed. I think if they actually kill her off he's most likely going with her.
11/05/2018 12:42 PMPosted by KreiderRather it be Nathanos since he's an OG Forsaken and the 2nd in command. This is assuming Sylvanas just leaves and isn't killed. I think if they actually kill her off he's most likely going with her.
Yeah, I'm not necessarily advocating for Voss as a preferred candidate. This thread is really about noticing how she went from a categorically unsuitable candidate to an option.
11/05/2018 12:42 PMPosted by KreiderRather it be Nathanos since he's an OG Forsaken and the 2nd in command. This is assuming Sylvanas just leaves and isn't killed. I think if they actually kill her off he's most likely going with her.
Depends on how literal that final scene of her Warbringers is. Its Sylvanas ... standing Alone; and not even Nathanos is standing along-side her anymore.
It is possible that he gets out from under her thumb this expansion, but its going to take something very specific for that to occur IMO. She's got to hurt the Forsaken in some big way (which isn't impossible. She may care for them in her own twisted way, but I'm not so she cares for them as people MORE than she cares for them as useful tools towards her own objectives). Her needs come first.
While Nathanos hesitated for a moment at Teldrassil, the ONLY time he's been shown to get actively upset with her was in Arathi when she slaughtered her own people (even the one's coming back). Despite being the prickliest curmudgeon out there, he does seem to have a tolerance threshold when it comes to protecting his people. Should she cross that threshold ... he may not follow her over it.
11/05/2018 12:45 PMPosted by Roghter11/05/2018 12:42 PMPosted by KreiderRather it be Nathanos since he's an OG Forsaken and the 2nd in command. This is assuming Sylvanas just leaves and isn't killed. I think if they actually kill her off he's most likely going with her.
Yeah, I'm not necessarily advocating for Voss as a preferred candidate. This thread is really about noticing how she went from a categorically unsuitable candidate to an option.
Yeah, I'd probably put her somewhere in the top 3 acceptable candidates. The list of strong replacements is pretty short though. After Nate and Voss, we've got... Belmont? Faranell? Lydon? Tattersail, maybe? I'd take any of them before I ever considered Calia or any of the new Undead Night Elves that's for sure.
I don't consider Calia Menethil an option. Not unless Blizzard wants to upend the identity and flavor they've established for the Forsaken over the past decade and a half.
From the day Voss was introduced, I expected her development to eventually take her to where she is now. Even if though they ultimately chose a hamfisted way of getting her there, I always expected it. Due to that belief I always assumed that Voss would one day take over Sylvanas, and I was always perfectly fine with that. Then BFA happened and I became fearful for any character taking up the mantle of Forsaken leader. I have no doubts that Blizzard would be more than willing to fully destroy Voss' character by slowly taking her down the same path that they've taken Sylvanas if it serves their story. For that reason alone I'm not sure I still want her or any character I like leading the Forsaken.