Light-Void Dualism and the Lunacy of Either in Absolute

Lore Story Forum
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A bit of a weird OP, but here goes:

The Void represents complete lack of being, and therefore, unadulterated potency/potentiality. In WoW, it’s often represented as a powerful catalyst for change. This change is typically either “corruption” in people, places, things, or entropy (Entropius the void god, the void elf ability “entropic embrace”, etc…)

The Light, on the other hand, undergirds extant things, and preserves them from deteriorating. This is seen in spells like PW:S, Fortitude, healing spells, etc.

Also, apparently, the universe/Great Dark Beyond relies on both correlative forces to exist. The Light is a force which keeps extant things existing, as they are, the Void facilitates change, entropy, and annihilation. Only with the two together, can you have a varied, changing universe.

Now here’s where things get interesting… nobody in their right mind would desire unadulterated Void, because that would entail their own annihilation. This is well-demonstrated in lore because void servants are typically mad. Okay, makes sense. SIMILARLY, nobody in their right mind would desire unadulterated Light. Why? Because that would entail their own complete subsumption by it. If the Void is non-being, then when it’s gone, all that’s left is Being, with a capital “B.” As in the reeeally old days, when it was just the Light, chilling out, doing its thing, before the Void came along. Pockets of void allow singular things, differentiated things, (* cough *, mortal things.) Without Void, you’ve got * just *the Light.

Still with me?

The only thing that would make the Light worthy of worship (and not just respect/reverence as a helpful force) is if it were more than just a force for healing and preservation. It would need not only to represent actus purus (unadulterated act of being), but also summum bonum, that is, the highest good. And by highest “good”, I’m not talking about the RPG alignment, I’m talking about truth itself, beauty itself, and goodness itself… the things any sane/and logical mind can’t help but want realized.

It seems to me that this is NOT how the Light is represented, however. Yes, it is portrayed benevolently in a general and often vague fashion, but it greatly falls short of making one be cool with a Light-and-Light-Alone existence

So unless the story changes again… for the time being, it strikes me that, at best, adherents of the Light should regard it with cautious reverence and appreciation, but certainly not fanatic worship. After all, if it truly is a dualistic principle - no one should desire it on its own, for its own sake.

No?

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Makes sense.

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For me personally, a far simpler answer. Those who worship the Light don’t truly understand what it is on a cosmic scale. They see “ooh, glowy hands, warm fuzzies, magic healing! :open_mouth:” and worship that. They understand the effect, but not the source.

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No one is pushing that narrative.

I also think that it’s not just a Light/Void spectrum. Nature exists outside of that dimension. I believe so does Life in general. Life is what makes the universe something other than an endless chess game between Void and Light.

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It’s certainly implied in various ways. For example, although we have discipline and shadow priests, any appreciation of the duality of Light and Shadow is at best an esoteric concept. It’s characterized as black and white, one or the other.

As for the “spectrum”, the duality of Light and Void is a (perhaps “the”) fundamental principle of existence. Yes, nature, and other forces also exist. But my post is about adherents of the Light and the Void. If you’re going to worship one with any degree of circumspection, you can’t avoid the other. You’re not really forced to contend with the other cosmic forces in quite the same way.

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Originally it seemed like the light wasn’t pushed as ‘good guy’ magic, but the magic of conviction. That was a defining part of the Scarlet Crusade for me, or how several terrible acts were done with the light/in its name. I think a lot of that kind of veered off in Wrath, where blizzard pushed light vs death. Which worked, of course, but they never got off that train afterward, with the light being consistently tied to good in WoW.

Now there’s an argument that light (in moderation) causes a change in its wielder to be ‘good’ as we would see it. But I’m specifically speaking about the school of magic that is light, it’s not a thinking force in the universe, neither is void magic. The void is similar to fire, just as fire burns, the void ‘corrupts’ (as our characters would see it). Neither are malicious, its just their nature to do so, no one is going to blame the fire for burning them when they stick their hand in.

That’s at least how I like to see both the light and the void, nothing but natural forces in the universe, simply going about their nature. The problem is that we tie characters closely connected to each force into that magic’s personality. The Naaru are literal fragments of light, and for the longest times viewed as literal voices of the light itself. Then the culture shock of Xera trying to convert Illidan came around and we saw a glimpse of that older view of the light, where it’s just conviction and unity. We saw more of it with the Mag’har intro where the lightforged had become an actively hostile force to all who would not convert.

The void of course has the void lords, we don’t know much about them, but if Sargeras is scared, there’s some real evil there. But the magic of void itself is the magic of possibility, it sees all paths as true. It’s likely that without the old gods, void magic could still drive folks insane, but only because of the sheer magnitude of what it will show them. But obviously there are whispers from dark beings within the void that clearly can direct which path will be shown, that’s the entire basis of the old god corruption we have dealt with.

That went waaaay longer than expected.

TL:Dr
Light and void as MAGICS are not inherently good or bad, just natural forces within the universe. But by their nature, they corrupt those who call upon either power, not actively, just like how fire burns or grass grows.

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Light worship is mostly a Human thing. The Night Elves certainly don’t share that belief And the Forsaken are probably the biggest worshippers of Shadow.

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I think a good comparison was sun worship in old RW cultures. If you lived in fertile or colder climates, the sun was a benevolent thing that brought a burst of growth then it’s influence was strong and warmth when it was cold. Living in the middle of a Desert however, you might portray the Sun in a more ruthless and dangerous fashion.

On Azeroth the experiences with the Light and the Void have almost always been pretty one sided with the Void as a threat and the Light as benevolent. Part of that would be due to the influences placed on the world, though also in general the Light is generally more incline to be beneficial in moderation than the void is. The Maghar from AU Draenor probably have a very different attitude towards the light as they have seen it’s assimilating side start to take hold.

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WE’re still never going to see Void Elves vs. Lightforged Draenei. Conflict in the Alliance isn’t allowed.

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You are trying to portray the light and the void in a moralistic aurgument which is a fallacy in itself. That’s like saying the positive end of a battery is good and the negative end is bad. The light and the void are merely opposing forces that should be exploited for their magical properties.

EDIT: I realize the irony of my character being a Paladin and saying this.

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The duality of Light/Void is not “morally good”, it’s a necessary condition for being.

The point is that if you like existing, then it’s logical to have some kind of an appreciation for both. Even if one is portrayed as comforting and the other as scary.

Further, if you’re going so far as to worship only one of the two (Light vs. Shadow/Void) as a religion, that religion also becomes illogical if it demands exclusivity and/or represents the other force antagonistically.

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Meso America was neither yet in all cases, Mayan, Incan, and Aztec, sun worship involved human sacrifice.

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As I see it, it’s very simple.

The Light used to be summum bonum. The world and certain classes were designed around that assumption.

Then the devs decided it was going to be “stifling stasis” instead. But the stuff that they put in the game when they did see it as summum bonum is still there, and now that stuff sits weirdly with the new cosmic order.

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Pretty much this.

I don’t think it’d be too hard for them to sort out thought. Just give more nuance to the non-Elune Light religions so they don’t come off so monistically. They already do this with the Cult of the Forgotten Shadows, which, to its credit, pays its respect to the dualism.

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I think we are agreeing. I bring up morality because you do mention actus purus and summum bonum in your opening statement which pertain to moral augments and philosophy.

To me the light/void duality is like the polar sides of a magnet. One cannot exist without the other. If you cut a magnet in half to get rid of one polar side you’ll end up with two magnets with two polar sides. Harness that phenomenon and you get electricity.

The light and the void react the same. One cannot exist without the other. Try to cut out the light or cut out the void you’ll end up with the same thing. Harness it and you’ll get light/shadow magic.

Neither deserves to be worshipped; just exploited.

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I dunno. Going from a Light that deserves worship to one that doesn’t is a pretty huge shift in world tone, IMO. (But then, you’re the paladin, so …)

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Exploiting resources, what are you a goblin paladiin? :laughing:

IRL, most people don’t worship “nature” anymore, but they still have some degree of reverence for it. And if not reverence, at least respect. I think what we’re discussing here is akin to that. Some people believe nature is a resource to be exploited, and just as I’m always open to having that debate, I think exploitation of the Light is up for debate… but I don’t think the lore is ever going to head in that direction. Except for goblins.

Ah, great point. I’d suggest rounding it out so that it’s not retconning those devotions but add in context wherein you have people expressing their healthy appreciation for the balance, and that their affinity for the Light is not because it is exclusively important, but that it’s just fitting for living creatures to revere the things that keep them alive, just as it’s particularly fitting for undead creatures to revere Shadow, which keeps them undead-y.

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Hmm… goblin paladins… I Like It!!! :grinning:

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True but kind of missing my point.

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What you’re describing is just the philosophy outlined by Seline Natalie and the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow, as well as the ideology that was espoused by the utopian Apexis civilization in Dreanor before the light wielding adherents of Rukmar attempted to hoard all knowledge in their civilization which resulted in a war that ultimately destroyed them. Judging by how it’s portrayed, the understanding of this balance between light and dark, wielding both and understanding their place in the universe, is a form of enlightenment in Warcraft.

Pure truth, pure beauty, and pure life are good on paper but Yrels Crusade reveals how this can manifest. Stasis, being frozen in time now and forever, with perfect order comes perfect control and with that too comes a universe unable to change. Without the Void and the Chaos it brings none of the other elements of the universe(Life, death, fel, and arcane.) would be able to exist, nor would our world in the inbetween.

Hence why Forsaken practice the Forgotten Shadow. Not light, not Void, but instead the shadow that is casted by the light when they interact, shadow is just another way of saying ‘reality’ and the dark magics shadow priests use are independent of pure void magic. Though they certainly can understand the void better then most and unleash it for small periods of time without completely losing themselves.

Your average citizen of Azeroth wouldn’t know this though. The Cult is based largely in the Forsaken and Apexis civilizations knowledge was lost to almost everyone save the Og’rilla, and so about all most people know is that the light feels good and the void feels bad.

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