Now that Personal Loot is gone, the Tier Token balance should absolutely be a factor when forming a group. I’ve joined and queue dodged 6 LFRs this week on my shaman because of massive Venerated Token bias (Pally, Priest, Shaman). The BEST group I got was 9 Venerated. And multiple times I’ve been in a group with 11. ELEVEN Venerated token users. That’s 11/25 players 44% of the raid being on a single token is simply maddening.
In past seasons I’ll admit that I was being greedy, I’d usually dodge anything over 5/25. But I’d much rather sit in a queue for 2 hours to be guaranteed to join an LFR with 7 Venerated enjoyers.
It’s not like dealing with it “like anyone else” I finally bit the bullet and did an LFR with 10 Venerated. 2 Druids, 1 Mage, zero hunters. First boss drops 1 Mystic Token (so 3 people get to roll on it) and two bows (goes to transmog).
Rik Drops a Mystic token again, and same druid wins it. And a Dreadful token that has 5 people eligible for it.
Back in the days of Personal Loot, I’d agree it that “Everyone” had the same odds of getting loot. Because effectively the odds shifted so that if you had 44% of the raid on a single token, that token had a 44% chance to drop.
Now it’s a 25% for each token. So if you only have 3 competitors on your token you have roughly an 8% chance to get a tier piece. And if you have 10 competitors on your token, you have a 2.5% chance. That’s some BS.
imgur / a / VkqSqIw
(the person who left was a pally, and you can see that on warcraft logs)
Yeah I’d agree with this. I’m not a deterministic loot purist. I actually like group loot a lot more for organized content. I Lead a guild and having boss loot tables fixed actually incentives people to diversify into different classes. If the boss keeps dropping daggers that get trashed every week, eventually someone will want to swap to a rogue.
But if you can’t pick your raid members, it should absolutely be personal loot. There’s no reason to punish popular classes for being popular, or even worse, pushing classes for being stapled to the same token as a FOTM class. Everyone heard that RWF raids are including shadow priests and all of a sudden everyone is alt’ing a priest. And that means I have a 3x harder time of getting tier from LFR than a Druid/mage/hunter.
But you can pick your raid members. And group stacking, even in LFR, was a thing. Which is why PL is gone from raids.
No one is being punished. We can get our tier from the Vault and the Catalyst.
I don’t see “everyone,” but oh well. Let them be dumb. RWF is not indicative of normal gameplay, nor should it be what determines people’s own game. And if they feel they have to do that… well… FotM always gets rebalanced or nerfed.
I’m not worried about getting tier within the first few weeks. I have the resources to do that within my guild. If I was going to organize a funnel raid, I’d do it in Normal. While you “Can” split farm LFR, organizing a split for LFR is largely a waste of time. LFR is designed to be queued into solo.
The only item worth anything to me from LFR is the tier tokens. And my gripe is that now that there are fixed loot tables - there is a popularity tax on certain classes. I just want even odds of getting a drop. I’m not looking for a hand out. I just everyone to have the same 1:25 chance. This season, like all seasons, I dodge any LFR queue that has “bad odds” meaning more than 6 other toons on my token. This seasons it’s been worse than it ever was, and I dodgeds a BUNCH of queues this season. That’s all I’m saying.
There’s no reason that shamans, pallies, and priests queuing into LFR solo should have 3x worse odds than other classes in the same queue.
Try reading my entire post and thinking about it before you chop it up and respond to me like you’re talking to another person.
I’m not personally worried about getting my tier. I play the game regularly, I lead raids, I do M+. So In 5 weeks I’ll be 4p and probably in mostly Hero/Myth track. LFR will be in the rearview window. So this isn’t a plea for a handout. In the short term, I have many sources of tier just like everyone. And just like everyone else, one of those many sources is LFR.
In LFR, there is a popularity tax. There might as well be a blue post saying “We have lowered the odds for tier tokens based on class popularity” That’s what they did when the change LFR from Personal Loot to Fixed Loot tables. In past seasons, it wasn’t that bad because the tokens were roughly balanced in play popularity. But this season is very lopsided against venerated. Maybe next season it will be Mystic tokens that are popular. This is egregious in LFR because they intended way to interact with LFR is solo-queue.
Blizzard could resolve this in several ways: they could go back to personal loot for queued content. They could ensure that there is token balance during queue making. Heck they could make LFR bosses drop Omni-tokens by slot. All this would solve the popularity tax.
Also, for completeness, I think the Fixed Loot Table improves group content generally (when not part of a queue system). When my guild is building up a raid roster, the Fixed Loot Tables actually do drive class diversity across the raid. But that only happens because we are a guild of people who get to choose to build our raid composition.
I am talking to another person, because I’m clearly not talking to myself— and I did read your entire post.
No one cares. Tier is easy to get. You get it from the Vault, you get it from the Catalyst. There is nothing to resolve.
LFR is not where you go to gear up. It hasn’t been in ages. Your tier comes from the Vault and the Catalyst. Our pieces to turn into tier come from the Vault, M0, M+, Delves, weeklies, etc.
There is plenty of gear for us lower ladder players. I know. I am one. I don’t need you to fight for me or for what I get from where. Because I have no issues getting my tier. If I run LFR, it’s to see the raid and maybe get some transmog. It isn’t to gear up.
So one last time… we can get our tier from the Vault and the Catalyst. We’re fine.
And no one claimed you were asking for a handout. So let’s get that out of the way, too. Have a good night.
Alright then, I guess either your reading comprehension skills, or your delivery need work. I said this this almost verbatim in my last response to you. I know my sources of tier, and I know that LFR is temporary. I wrote an entire paragraph about it.
My point is that when LFR was personal loot. If a boss dropped 1 token, I had a 1:25 chance to get it. Simple 4% for each person who queued, everyone in the raid had the same chance. Then, they made a change to the game to make fixed loot tables. This introduced an imbalance in effective drop rates. In the screenshot I tried to post there were 10 people in the raid with a 2.5% chance to get tier, and 3 people with an 8% chance of getting tier. And While I applaud this change for group content generally, it’s indefensible for queued content - and only made worse by class imbalance.
I’d honestly be fine with this. In the “between times” (BFA and early SL) when tier sets didn’t exist - I never did LFR.
Raid buffs honestly don’t matter enough in LFR to warrant this. And that would end up just lightly taxing the Zenith token which has 4 classes on it instead of 3. It could also make queue times unnecessarily long while 24 people wait for 1 random rogue to queue up so the raid could start.
Maybe. But it would also clean up the people on GD complaining that a bow dropped for a group with no hunters, since every group would then have a hunter.
Yeah, but what kills me about that is - they HAD a solution to it. It was personal loot.
Now if my guild’s raid doesn’t bring a hunter and the bow drops… that to me is fair game. We chose not to bring a hunter and we get to feel the wrath of the loot-gods for it. We actually would consider this during our Reclears. We’d see if anyone wanted to swap to a DH for Rashanan bc he dropped a Warglaive. It added texture to the guild raiding experience. But queued content is simply different because there is no choice to be made.
It’s actually the opposite. Today, you need to have friends bring “scrubs” who don’t currently have tier. Because if your toon has Mythic Tier they cannot select NEED for tokens. Which is more problematic than the old system.
In the old personal loot system, you needed a high-geared player to be able to trade their personal loot to you. So yeah I can increase my drop chance from 4% to 8%, but that extra 4% comes from my helper going to 0%, not from anyone else in the raid.
Now in the current system, every other person who bring a Venerated “scrub helper” each directly rolls against me. But as a Solo-queue into LFR in the old personal loot system: NO ONE could take away my 4% drop chance Even if I solo queued into a 24-stacked raid group. I still had my 1:25 chance for loot. That’s the way it should work for queued content.