LFR is not the problem. Everything else is.

The gearing system is an absolute mess, compounded by the combination of the sheer number of sources and their ability to titanforge.

To encourage a natural progression through content, you need an ordered structure.

Using the current ilvl range, gear sources should be:
    [Normal-Warforged]
    [300-310] WQ / Warfront / World Drops
    [315-325] Dungeon / Reputation vendors / Rare Crafted BoE / Emissaries
    [330-340] Heroic / Epic Crafted BoE / World Bosses
    [345-355] Mythic / LFR
    [360-370] Mythic+1-5 / Raid / Mythic 1-5 weekly chest
    [375-385] Mythic+6-10 / Heroic Raid / Mythic 6-10 weekly chest
    [390-400] Mythic 10+ / Mythic Raid / Mythic 10+ weekly chest


Add in token vendors for each tier that match the ilvl range, and BoP crafted gear. Capping forging at +10 makes it a nice little bonus players can get without making it possible to skip entire tiers.

This is a natural progression structure, where people are given incentive to experience the normal, heroic, and mythic content in the correct order. This also puts LFR as a natural but optional step towards normal raiding, and gives a sense of accomplishment as one climbs the gear and difficulty ladder.

Compare that to the current system:
    [Normal-Titanforged]
    [310] Crafted BoEs
    [310-340(?)] Dungeon
    [325-355(?)] Heroic
    [330-390] Blurred and overlapping layers of BoEs, Rep Vendors, Mythic/M+ and N/H/M Raid, also WQs / Emissaries / BoEs / Warfronts / World Bosses / LFR (that can also Tforge)

What an absolute mess.
correct and lfr is same level 340 to 355 tops. Not even worth the hassle? Can get same gear from other sources and mostly easier.
Working as intended dude
Less iLvL bloat would be a great start, Its ok if players get some higher level stuff.
Higher effort gives you more reward, but only slightly better.

Vendors are the best at this, If a player can plot away at getting 90% of what they want. And with a more time + more effort = More rewards and better rewards.
The game would probably be in a much more healthy state, Put in some good quality cosmetic rewards in the tough stuff that is not available anywhere else.
(even if it goes away after the next Xpac, Do something in game to let players know how long that is. Say a quest that has right on it a 12 month duraition to complete)

Then get Professions up to a worthy standard, Give them some of the gear the vendors have in equivalent. And a few pieces they do not.
Have the drops come from all content, But drop more in higher level content.

The idea should be to create some form of community progression, On both a guild, Server and faction level in each server set.

Raiders at the higher levels get the chance at the best stuff, they get it faster as well. But all players have stuff to work towards, and they should not need to give out massive handouts just to keep casuals up.

this would also give rep vendors a chance to have some good items as well.
A combination of effort and time. Its not perfect, and would take a bit of work to implement, but if its done with any sense it should be far more healthy than current.

From the blizzard side, its a bunch of grinds all supporting each other to keep players engaged in the game. From players side, it should give them far more choice on what they desire to achieve each day.
What part of the game to engage with, and a chance for guilds to support each other without ruining the play of players who prefer a close to full solo experience.
11/11/2018 12:29 PMPosted by Sharaeline


From the blizzard side, its a bunch of grinds all supporting each other to keep players engaged in the game. From players side, it should give them far more choice on what they desire to achieve each day.
What part of the game to engage with, and a chance for guilds to support each other without ruining the play of players who prefer a close to full solo experience.


TBH, even as someone who primarily plays solo content, I think the cap on solo gear acquisition should be pretty low - outside of PvP. You should be able to buy/craft your way into heroic dungeon ilevels, but everything after that should take some organized effort.

If you want to slowly increase your power to high levels by playing alone, there's a whole genre called "RPG" designed around that concept. WoW can't provide equivalent rewards for solo players without making group content irrelevant. There's no sense of accomplishment or motivation to get people together and work on an encounter if you could just go gather 100 bear butts in the same time and get a guaranteed reward of the same value.
yep, the system is a mess
11/11/2018 12:39 PMPosted by Assistance
11/11/2018 12:29 PMPosted by Sharaeline


From the blizzard side, its a bunch of grinds all supporting each other to keep players engaged in the game. From players side, it should give them far more choice on what they desire to achieve each day.
What part of the game to engage with, and a chance for guilds to support each other without ruining the play of players who prefer a close to full solo experience.


TBH, even as someone who primarily plays solo content, I think the cap on solo gear acquisition should be pretty low - outside of PvP. You should be able to buy/craft your way into heroic dungeon ilevels, but everything after that should take some organized effort.

If you want to slowly increase your power to high levels by playing alone, there's a whole genre called "RPG" designed around that concept. WoW can't provide equivalent rewards for solo players without making group content irrelevant. There's no sense of accomplishment or motivation to get people together and work on an encounter if you could just go gather 100 bear butts in the same time and get a guaranteed reward of the same value.


That is the intent, you go out do your thing. The idea is there is options :) Professions are mostly solo content, but the selling and trade is not.
The idea should be that all content feeds into other content, and that without a high bloat of gear. The gear stays a bit lower longer, It also means if players are having a bit of bad luck. The community itself should support that, and they have options as well to circumvent the bad luck up to a high point relative.
Players should be able to get quite far with time, only few special things should be extremely locked. And not even close to how it is now.
Casual players need something to work towards, But blizzard just goes with hand outs to catch them up.
You can say, this thing is raids only since its harder, But a MMO should be Time+effort+Difficulty with a variance.
Everything working together, People put a lot of effort into Professions. and there rewards are, wouldn't it be nice if anyone wanted anything i could make, let alone selling it for what its worth.
you would find players need less handouts, if the systems for them where in a healthy state.
Things like titanforgeing would be largely unneeded, and players could be doing content for things that can still hold value.
Good luck is still just awesome, Effort has rewards, and time has rewards all together. Finding that balance would all take time, but they should have more time.
Players can get on a do what they find enjoyable, even if the game still has that grind.
Also time gate things to the players effort and time, If players are working together at something it would be extremely helpful for a general community health. Info in game for this is needed.
Provide ways for every type of player to play there part, dungeons all providing something. profession hand ins, and drops from the world all providing some form of progression and part of the reward.
Something every person can get and find useful in some way.

One of the big issues is that the devs and blizzard are burning bridges, Something like pathfinder could have gone down well if they had just come out and said. We are trying something new with flying, we will talk about it in a few months.
Scaling did not fix any of the real issues with leveling, but i bet that take a lot of work and time.
Professions in legion had a lot of extra work, but to say it was good. The outcome was a slightly less bad version than we have now.
And now we have Azarite, i do not think i have ever seen a MMO get something so wrong. Its the least engaging i have ever found gearing ever, in any MMO i have play.
The system plays a very large role in people quitting.
Using the current ilvl range, gear sources should be:
[Normal-Warforged]
[300-310] WQ / Warfront / World Drops
[315-325] Dungeon / Reputation vendors / Rare Crafted BoE / Emissaries
[330-340] Heroic / World Bosses
[345-355] Mythic / LFR/epic crafted BoE, can only equip 3 pieces
[360-370] Mythic+1-5 / Raid / Mythic 1-4 weekly chest
[375-385] Mythic+6-10 / Heroic Raid / Mythic 5-9 weekly chest
[390-400] / Mythic Raid / Mythic 10+ weekly chest


this is all that i would change to make it seem perfect to me.
and the OP is lightyears better than what we have.

fun fact, my guild refers to chests and such as "weekly chest of dissapointment"
"cache of dissapointment"
They need to get rid of war/titanforging and mythic plus.

The gearing has become so dumb I refuse to even get involved with it.

Trying to give us more to do, but instead many of us just do nothing.
1 Like
11/11/2018 12:18 PMPosted by Wiskey
correct and lfr is same level 340 to 355 tops. Not even worth the hassle? Can get same gear from other sources and mostly easier.


I do LFR for the mandatory 1 piece of uldir azerite and trinkets. But for everything else?

Time walk to 320, Warfront to 340+. The 2 events seem to be back to back everytime. The only "difficult" part is getting an alt to 120 in time for time walk. Your alt can now go pug normal raids.
1 Like
11/11/2018 02:07 PMPosted by Wisskee
They need to get rid of war/titanforging and mythic plus.

The gearing has become so dumb I refuse to even get involved with it.

Trying to give us more to do, but instead many of us just do nothing.


I think mythic+ has its place as an alternative or supplement to raiding. It at least gives strictly PvE players a daily progressive activity.

Warforging is fine, I think, but sitting down and thinking about the impact of Tforging when paired with the glut of gear sources really makes it a bad mechanic for the health of the game. If I can roll the dice on 10+ 330 items tforging into 375+ items, then I’m getting close to the same drop chances as running a raid - if not surpassing it.

Tforging and wonky structuring of rewards relative to effort has a real demotivating effect on the playerbase, and leads to loads of people like me getting to a point where we end up in raid/M+ ilvls without doing anything more coordinated than chopping wood, doing WQs, and clicking “find group”.