Lfr is bad for the game

Community General Discussion
391

In what way does:

I have a lot of regrets about Raid Finder for WoW. I am sure I worked on features that were much, much worse, but that’s the first one that came to mind.

To be clear, the goal of getting more players into raiding is a good one. But the way Raid Finder turned out removed, IMO anyway, a lot of the epicness of what made raiding raiding. I also haven’t played WoW in a few years, so it’s entirely possible they have solved the problem by now.

Invalidate anything in my links? He says right there:

To be clear, the goal of getting more players into raiding is a good one.

Which is essentially the same as what the first link in my post said raid finder was for.

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392

Yes. Now read the next sentence.

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Personally, since I am not really interested in raiding, I would simply go back to skipping raiding altogether until I can solo it. I only ever raided a few times during classic through Cataclysm because I got invited by friends to join them on their raid nights a few times.

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“Removing epicness” is simply his opinion (this is what IMO means, by the way: “In My Opinion”), and still does not contradict the first post I linked. He also made it clear that he hasn’t “played WoW in a few years, so it’s entirely possible they have solved the problem by now.” Essentially he is admitting to being an elitist.

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Ghostcrawler left in late 2013, five years ago, during Mists of Pandaria. The beloved tweet is some 2+ years old, and he said he hasn’t played in years—probably since he left the game 5 years and some days ago. I’d be taking his personal opinions with a grain if salt. Neither Cataclysm nor early MoP were very good. Something something kill 12 mogu.

The truth is that LFR really harms no one. Those who don’t enjoy it don’t need to run it. If someone like a guild is trying to force you to run it, it might be worth reevaluating if their guild is the right place for you.

It’s a hard pill to swallow but the whole accountability social thing died long before the first poorly thought out version of LFR went live. Dungeon finder and cross-realm grouping for things like battlegrounds are also a thing. There may be ways to bring some of that back on a community by community basis but removing LFR won’t bring that about or solve those problems. This would require members of the server gathering in places where callouts are permitted. Somehow I don’t think some of the folks who hate LFR would be fans of a callout culture.

RP servers have such a culture and we run people off our servers for things that folks on other servers would consider “sjw.”

Removal of LFR isn’t going to make substantially more raiders. When it comes to gearing, people will always follow the path of least resistance. Some people for whatever reason don’t like raiding. If high end raiders want more raiders they’re going to have to do what we did back in the Molten Core era: Groom and gear new raiders. Create healthy environments people actually enjoy spending time in.

In BC and Wrath I ran raids 7 days a week, sometimes twice a day (raiding with my guild, leading pugs, or raiding with a group of Aussies at zero dark thirty). Often times I led. 10 mans, 25 mans. I provided all consumables. I taught and groomed raiders. Mechanics, attitudes, and raid habits like using consumables, killing the adds, and getting out of the bad stuff on the ground. Then I ran pugs that welcomed anyone, like alts from other raid guilds or people in small friends and family guilds who could never get a raid.

People don’t do that stuff as much anymore. Instead they grab addon of the expansion and exclude instead of teach.

You must foster the kind of community you wish to see. If you want more raiders? You grow them.

You wonder why your servers have no community anymore.

I'll tell you a little secret.

The problem exists between the keyboard and the chair.

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396

Are you ok? You’re bleeding yourself dry and name calling over a topic that’s been done to death. General consensus tends to be, no one thinks LFR is the blight of the earth, except you, apparently.

I never step into it, except for xmog and maybe a shot at some filler gear for my offspec when I have nothing to do that day. My gameplay would not be affected either way if it was removed, and neither would yours. I’m not sure why GenericHunter397 doing the lowest tier of raiding upsets you so much, but I’ve made sure to let the mods know how passionately you feel.

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398

Me thinks this person needs to drink some Kool-aid by now and chill!

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399

It fine, It for the people who can’t Get behind a raid schedule and have RL to do Like work, Clean house before it fill up with trash, be a parent, take care of house pets, have soical meet up with ETC

You know that stuff, But nah Let you elite speak you mind put down you foot and make those who can’t suffer.

Hence Why I willing to wait for Uldir get faceroll easy to get a stupid book to tame pets.

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The 3 posters above have completely missed why I have even decided to reply in this thread, I have no time,nor patience to repeat myself.

I don’t care if Billy the bot gets epics(which is what you folks are arguing).

Read this thread from the beginning or don’t comment at all please.

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His opinion matters a lot,given he is the one that created the feature.

Stop giving this bs about elitism.
Also Bashiok basically gave a 200 word post about GCs first sentence in the tweet.

GC saying it didn’t turn out as intended INVALIDATES it.

I’m not going to repeat myself again.

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402

Much respect and many kudos to you, Wendaria!

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403

Yes, and I’m genuinely opposed to high level gear being essentially free for the sake of getting people to try their failed new content. I don’t like how the rewards are completely disproportionate to the effort.

That aside, before we started getting all this abundance, LFR has the same power creeped effect as it did since Cataclysm. It is the reason why the max item level is 395, instead of something sustainable like let’s say 370.

I can explain here since the entire gear structure is built around the four raid difficulties, rather than the other content. The only reason we’re getting 385 pieces from Darkshore is because the next raid, same with Arathi and Heroic Uldir. The issue is that we have four difficulties equating to a power gain from 340-395, which is a huge deal considering it’s about a 100% increase to overall character strength and us going to 425 and eventually I’d guess 450 for Crucible, we’re facing a curvature that’s going to likely double our strength again. There is likely to more raids to follow even, not to mention Azerite gear traits add immense strength.

None of the creep has to happen, if people do LFR for why they say do it, for the content and story, they simply either don’t need gear to drop for them, or just make LFR proportionally equal to the current dungeon ilvls, as it’d be an alternative to doing dungeons and still allow people to “learn” what raids are.

On the point of the other available items, look at how quickly dungeons, WQs, and ect. are being increased already to accommodate the high raid item level we’ll be seeing in PvE Season 2. They really need to work on this unless they plan on doing a stat squish every expansion.

Best case scenario is we go back to Normal and Heroic(Mythic), with LFR being an actual introductory instead of a difficulty level. That way the gear difference could’ve been 350 for Normal and either 365 or 370 for Heroic. Just in hopes to keep that curve stable.

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404

LFR was a mistake, yes we get it. but it’s too late son, too … LATE.

It’s not going anywhere no matter how many threads we will keep seeing, this is not like we want classic servers back. No, this is about losing $$ and Blizzard doesn’t want that.

Just don’t do it ,and go outside.

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405

Agreed.

10char

406

LOL no they don’t matter at all hes not even part of blizzard anymore invalid whatever hes feelings doesn’t mean squat to me.

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407

Excellent point.
STOP catering to the very few and cater more to the masses who pay the bills around here.

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408

complete BUNK.
AGAIN…people do LFR because of time issues.
YOU all are the ones who keep rambling on about seeing the storyline / end game content.
WE are telling you its about our TIME and SCHEDULING.
And on THAT point, yes, it SHOULD drop gear relevant to its complexity.
NO…it shouldnt be dropping anything equal to higher content. But something should drop for the work we put in just as it does for YOU when you put the work in.

And yes…I read your post. I only felt to respond to what I did.

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Obviously not since you didn’t read what is directly after what you quoted.

Exactly, either no gear or heroic dungeon gear.

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Stop kidding yourself nobody does raiding to get zero gear from it. What is this The Twilight zone? :rofl:with your comment.

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Mostly It partice run to “Try” to learn mechanics (Strong key word of Try) and deal with raid quest for story plot.

Much like we have to deal with Mythic quest for story.

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