That’s absurd. The environment we interact in has an impact on our behavior but it’s not the sole factor.
Maybe I read too much into what you wrote. If you meant all community problems are Blizzard problems, because Blizzard should always maintain awareness of where systemic changes can assist in managing community issues, then I agree.
If you meant all community problems are Blizzard problems because it’s Blizzard’s job to fix all the problems the community creates, then no, I object.
Yes, Blizzard should take opportunities to tweak systems to discourage toxic interactions, and streamline the play experience.
People copying comps that are useful at the bleeding edge but unnecessary in most content isn’t something Blizzard can, or even should, try to control. This is up to people to try to engage their tiny little brains and understand what they’re doing before they do it.
Nah, but it’s less relevant than current rating.
You’d rather invite a 3.5k s1 player with a s2 rating of 2700, than a player with a s1 rating of 2600 and a s2 rating of 2700. At the same time I’d rather take the player with s1 rating of 0 but current rating of 2700, than the player with a s1 rating of 3.5k but current rating of 0.
Not everyone does, but the people that are able to draw conclusions from multiple forms of data are likely to do such (however few those may be). It tells you about how well a player knows their spec, and what general knowledge they have about m+ dungeons.
That says more about you than the metric. There’s people who don’t look at details for damage either, but thar doesn’t make it a bad measurement system.
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Exactly. “Social problem” and “perception problem” buzzwords are complete lies, and its surprising how easily Blizz can get people to believe them.
Both of these arise 100% from the game’s design, so they are a result of Blizz decision making. Whether they deflect or refuse to admit it irrelevant.
Player behavior mimics the foundation of the system. M+ can be punishing against classes with deficient power/utility, and very unforgiving of mistakes. To the surprise of absolutely no one, players making groups are too.
If Blizz spent less time manufacturing excuses and scapegoats, and more improving their awful balance, things would be much better overall. “Social” and “perception” issues originate from foundational design issues, and those are always on Blizz no matter how much they trick people into thinking otherwise.
Yeah for sure.
I think the proper comparison here would be comparing S1 rating for S2, versus comparing dmg meter of one dungeon while running another. Sure they did well in one thing but that doesn’t guarantee doing well in another. Hell even in the same dungeon people can have different performances. The problem is there is no way to have “consistent” data to prove actually skill level at a glance.
That’s ridiculous. Yes, there are times when severe imbalances exist, and yes, it’s on Blizzard to fix those. But there are many more times when the balance is overall in a good place, and the differences in classes that people leverage for bleeding edge content aren’t relevant to the player base as a whole. When people see those bleeding edge comps and mimic them, in spite of the generally good balance, that is absolutely a perception issue, and a lack of community understanding.
Most people don’t play the game well enough, or even understand the synergies and variables well enough, to leverage most of what makes meta comps meta in the highest keys. They just assume that if it’s best for those players it must be best for everyone, and will often choose weaker players on FOTM rerolls who don’t understand what they’re doing and actually make the group worse.
But we’re not talking about comparing them against each other, we’re talking about comparing it alongside each other.
You’re saying that you don’t look at previous rating at all. I’m saying that says more about you rather than the value of that metric. Just as if I were to ignore looking at the dps measurements from Details, that says more about me than the metric. Both are metrics with useful data, and can be considered to make more informed decisions.
Apart from that, I actually think logging at damage logs for another dungeon is a great source of information to estimate how much damage someone will deal in an entirely different dungeon. Of course it’s absolutely worthless if that’s your only metric, but that’s obvious.
I have my own vents.
Just did a 10 ToP but didnt time it. I played with a shaman dps who literally said “i lust when its convenient for me”…
really? not when its called for? you can’t make this stuff up. ALso called me cringe for dying on a tankbuster (when I didnt, i died from not getting healed back up after the tankbuster and yes, i used to a CD…)
let’s not forget that this waste of flesh died multiple times on trash …but i guess we’re supposed to just pretend we didnt see that… jesus.
our ancestors solved this problem by joining guilds with like-minded players…
with guilds and communities and cross-realm and cross-faction, this should NOT be a problem. Pugging should be a distant memory. Everyone should be in communities for their interests.
yeah uh… vengeance. im havoc. i.e. even worse because they dont need 2 chaos brands.
Community problems are intrinsically also problems for blizzard. The problems are shared by both blizzard and the community.
Systematic changes are a lot easier to make than social ones though. So if we want to really see change in community problems it will take action by blizzard.
Not really. If I have two dps apply to my key and one of their specs does better in m+ over the other, indicated by it being meta, and player skill is unknowable then the right choice is to bet on what you know.
Yes, sometimes meta depends on spec interaction such as 2 min cooldowns and PI but if a spec can simply provide more then you go with it.
Sometimes meta isn’t just what’s played at the top sometimes it’s just what’s better at all levels. Also sometimes it’s not best at all levels.
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There is no way to create a system for every behavior, and there is a point where people feel their behavior being managed and will actively try to subvert the system.
There are times when people need to accept responsibility for their own actions and either decide collectively to make a change or live with the consequences of their choices.
This is exactly the problem. Being in the meta doesn’t necessarily indicate that a spec does better in M+. It may do better in the highest keys with an extremely skilled player leveraging a niche synergy to handle a problem most players will never encounter. Without either the unique synergy, the skill of the player utilizing it, and the specific issue that can’t be resolved any other way the spec may not be any better, and could even be worse than some for general play.
This is where the discussion starts and ends. The nature of the community is determined by how well (or poorly) the system is designed.
If (insert spec here) offers little value in dungeons compared to others, shrugging it of as a “perception problem” is pure stupidity. The answer, obviously, is to give that spec more value, as well as avoid environmental/encounter/mechanical factors that overvalue niches that arent readily available enough.
Blizz are easily the ones who have the most pull to create change. Its about them giving enough of a damn to actually do it, instead of always using “social issue” as an excuse to not take action.
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This shouldn’t be a thing.
This is a blizzard problem. If the meta is so powerful then that means only a handful of specs will get invited. This means only the FOTM rerollers and lucky people already playing that class will have access to the content without waiting in queue.
This is bad design.
If one has any skill then joining a guild with like-minded players is basically like applying for a job, then there is tons of drama over loot from raid etc. there’s always some jerk in the guild that dominates the conversation.
Then there is the issue that M+ is 5 people. It’s not flexible. The last guild I was in there was a lot of drama over this. One group basically did not invite others outside of the group, and there was a lot of complaining. They eventually made their own discord.
Another recent guild I was in, only about 3 people were pushing, so we still had to pug. One guy did like to run keys a lot but … at that point it’s just pugging with a friend, not a guild run.
The last CE guild I joined I had the highest score, and nobody ran keys. I think I maybe had two sessions the entire season with guild members, and pugged the rest.
your idea only works when a person is really causal, and is fine with running 5’s or whatever, or if you make it into a HoF guild that requires M+ for your raid spot. I’ve been in about 5 different guilds over the years and literally none of them ran M+ regularly (some of the GMS did try to organize, and I would join, but we would usually have to pug a couple of people)
This also ignores time of day. Even in the more active guilds, where there were invites, often it was at a time that I couldn’t make it. Then, when I did have time, nobody was on because these runs only happened from like 7-9PM every few days.
I see this tired argument over and over, but it’s not reality.
The key word in this sentence is “If”. What if (insert spec here) doesn’t actually offer little value in dungeons compared to others, but people think it does because people running bleeding edge keys don’t use it? What do you expect Blizzard to do about people not understanding the actual value of each spec?
But also, sometimes a spec is meta because it’s better in all situations at all levels. Don’t ignore that!
Get balance as tight as possible so when players do play with the spec they realize that it’s fine.
People are only picky about meta specs as long as they’re willing to wait.
I have no issue getting into groups on my brewmaster monk despite them being awful in m+.
Edit:
I’d just like to add that your post is a pleasure to read and you clearly have well thought out points.
I agree.
Has blizzard ever made this excuse or is this just something players say?
Definitely, and those situations are the places where it is on Blizzard to fix the problem. I just don’t believe that is the majority of the meta specs season to season.
Thanks, and I appreciate being able to offer a dissenting viewpoint without being accused of trolling. I see you in a lot of threads so you’re probably aware of how rare that is, so thanks for being willing to discuss.
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thats not wrong, but what i mean by a community problem is that its just how the community is. thats just how competitive gaming is in general. there will always be something that is “best”, no matter how small of a margin it may be best by. and ppl will always abuse that as if whats “best” is the only thing that exists, or as if nothing else can even remotely do the same thing.
can blizz do something to help with it? idk, maybe, but no idea what that would be. but ultimately its on the community to not be this way, which just isnt something thatll ever happen.