Leveling speed is creating inexperienced max levels and leading to content nerfs as well as toxic endgame

This has been a problem since forever honestly. I remember when I started playing back in Wrath, getting into a raid was like starting playing from scratch. Suddenly rotations mattered, consumables and enchants mattered, hit cap and expertise cap mattered, you were suddenly pointed at spells in your spellbook that you would have never looked at in your glorious fifty hours of leveling journey. It’s just how WoW end game works, because it’s designed around playing with a friendly guild that is there to teach you.

Yep. Forgive me if anyone’s mentioned this already, I don’t have time to go through the whole thread, but when Cataclysm launched, one of the big backlashes they got was how much it changed the original world, so Bliz said “Welp, we’re never doing that again.” And they didn’t.

And there you have it, the OG continents of Azeroth still languishing in a 14 (ish) year old xpack. Just the way the players wanted it. :dracthyr_shrug:

I must be weird that I spent my time leveling learning my skill-trees and utilities before I got to max level. When I raided, we were required to have a list of add-ons to make doing that content easier and if you refused to download them you didn’t raid.

I honed my skill doing as many random pugs as possible on my healers and tanks. If I could learn to survive and keep people alive with the randomize style they brought, then I knew I was on my “A” game. Now however I struggle to be on a “C” game because I just can’t use one of my hands as easily anymore because of amputations.

Yeah, that is an old bug and its weird that it does not get fixed. I have had 6 toons die that way.

Two of my characters died while using the flight master. They were flying along and when they landed, they were dead. No idea what killed them as I am not Player verse Player flagged. Only thing I can think is while flying through a zone while Fyrakk is breathing fire it’s an auto kill upon landing?

Fyrrak fire is " damage over time" on contact you continue to gradually die, so you were dead, you just did not know it yet.

There should be two sliders on your heirloom page. The +/- ranges of stats and XP should be determined by the number of heirlooms you have. Even a noob who is struggling at a group quest he can’t find help with could get a boost, while experienced players could move even faster or slow down to a crawl without having to visit the xp off guy.

And this is exactly how an experienced player who understands the vagaries of learning wow would do it.

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I don’t think leveling and getting limited abilities helps you learn anything. When you get to a higher level the way spells synergize and play differently, especially based on talents.

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Which is why this might have been the culprit had I even seen Fyrakk. I am just speculating that maybe it might have been the cause and yes, I have been flying next to him and in front of him on a mount and you can survive if you get out of the flames fast enough. I think had I gotten the achievement for dying to his fire would have definitely been a clue, but never got it, unless it’s bugged that you only get it if you die while in the area of the fire, not a minute later when you land at the Iskaara village which is where both times I landed, I died happened.

Side note, just seen this video on YouTube and I think it hits a lot of the issues. Props to the person that made it.

Returning to World of Warcraft in 2024 (youtube.com)

There aren’t many of those. Have you done M+ or pugged a raid? Player incompetence is rampant, and it’s ruining the experience for the ones of us that CAN play all classes 90-100%.

The game changed from being a massive world to just being a collection of instances. It’s the curse of LFD. I didn’t believe it until I saw it happening in front of me with Classic, The moment LFD was implemented it was like the game died.

Now, when I analyze this further, it’s the need to run instances multiple times that actually hurts the world of the game, M+ does this, being able to run LFR, normal raid, heroic and mythic the same week does this.
People who love M+ are completed distracted about the fact it makes the world less meaningful, most players don’t even get it when an old veteran or a classic player points it out.

This is why I loved Ever Quest. Everything is contested as there is no physical dungeon. This made people learn camps to get gear, to interact with other players to get groups. It also sadly caused some “guilds” to block others from advancing by not allowing them into that content by keeping bosses needed to unlock keys dead.

To be honest if World of Warcraft ever went back to a game mode like that, I think a lot of people would lose their collective :poop: I still think they need to merge like 50% of the servers as a starter to make areas feel more alive.

I don’t think this had the impact that you feel it does.

Ultimately, people play what they want to play. Developers can nudge them in one direction or another, but it still comes down to doing what it is that they really want to do.

Things like LFD didn’t really remove anyone from the world (in any meaningful way)… it just opened up more options for people that probably didn’t favor the world anyway.

People who love dungeons will run dungeons and often ignore the world… and if you were to remove those dungeons, most would not suddenly develop a love for the world zones. More likely, they would just find another game to play that allows them to run dungeons and ignore the world zones.

I’m the opposite. I play almost exclusively (solo) in the world.

But I had a point in WoW where I moved on because the developers tried to nudge me a bit too hard into something I wanted no part of when they removed flight. They removed my ability to fly and quest, so I moved on to another game that allowed me to. In the end, I found a way to play how I wanted to play.

I can’t read a boss to death. Now stand still as I cast smite on you, it does 20867 shadow damage which is empowered by my kill command I borrowed from a hunter macro.

EverQuest changed to instances almost immediately. What you are describing lasted about 2 years of its 25 year history. Because even EverQuest realized how horrible a game based on non instances would be with any degree of popularity.

Its why no one uses that method anymore. Its bad game design.

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Your character needs the threat of death. Lethality is non-existent in the Open World and mobs requires little-to-no effort in killing or training you to use abilities to avoid/mitigate damage.

The thing that made the Vanilla experience so much fun was some mobs being absolutely lethal, requiring either friends or the total use of your toolkit to beat.

They need to make mobs more threatening 1000%. Then people will start learning their classes almost immediately.

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They have been saying this since Vanilla and the first time they did a squish to the XP requirements to level. You don’t learn anything leveling your character you learn it playing at end game. The toxicity comes from veterans who refuse to tolerate players who are learning.

Remix proves the opposite that the WoW playerbase is made up of a generation of players who prefer to over power content rather than finesse it. If they did what your proposing large droves of players would quit.

Did you play Classic WoW as it introduced expansions one by one or are you saying that from a memory back in the day?

In Classic, people are in general more willing to help out other players than to ignore them, and even if you make a group to do a dungeon, you can freely communicate with everyone “Hey guys, I have a quest that needs us to clear that room, would you guys help me out?” and they would most likely help you out.
As LFD came out it was like an immediate switch, people would now rush to the min ilv required to queue for a dungeon and just mindlessly spam them, no conversations, pure silence and completely optmized routes for speed. if you said you needed someone to help you with a quest they would completely ignore you or keep spamming chat with “???” as if they didn’t even understand english, but would initiate kicks or say “not my problem”.

I was so shocked at this realization because I had been the “LFD is fine” crowd for as long as I can remember, but just as a form of test I decided to do one bold move, make a character in Classic Era and look for someone to help me out. To my surprise, not only people would help me, they would give me bags and give me gold straight out of the gate, which was my original experience playing classic vanilla to wrath before LFD.

the point is, the social aspect of the game dies with LFD and you can only find it again when looking for raid guilds. The more the game pushed new higher difficulties, the more they pushed that experience away from the new player/newbie.

There is a lot more to be said about this subject but I would have to write a novel about it.

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I have played since very early Vanilla.

You realize the changes in the social aspect of the game and what people tolerate really has nothing to do with Blizzard right? Blizzard has always been reactionary as has every other game company to the requests and desires of the broader audience. It may not be what we all want, but it is something a majority of players want and they pander to the greater majority as their bottom line is, has been, and always will be the driving factor related to how games are designed.

The industry is no longer driven by passionate individuals but by the people writing the checks.

The consumer is in the driving seat or rather the majority of consumers. Which is why games have gotten easier over time as they have gone mainstream. The games have been designed to be accessible to the masses…again because more people playing…equals more money in the shareholder pockets.

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OP got ratio’d HARD