I’ve always loved sub spec and I will be on a PVP server so I figured I’d level as subtlety. How much will this slow me down/ how much more difficult will it be?
I leveled as a sub rogue 1-70 back in TBC and I remember it being a blast and not that bad but TBC is obviously not vanilla…
For single target questing, not much, since you’re going to do a huge burst on your opener. But in packed areas where you’re going to keep pulling a second mob, you’ll notice it slowing you down. Plus you’re going to rely on stealth to open. So you will be slowed down a little, but once you’re used to your aggro range and know when to stealth it’s not significantly slower, but it is a little slower.
I level as sublety every single time in vanilla. I much prefer utility. Stealth is horrible and almost useless if u arent sub. And i love having 2 sets of cooldowns. That also means 2 blinds.
And because 99.99% of all rogues level as combat, that means if i find a rogue on the opposite faction, its a pretty good bet that rogue only has 1 set of cooldowns and horrible stealth so i can use that to my advantage.
Its very funny watching other rogues trying to hide from me when i can easily see them…
Pitiful combat rogues lol.
But hey, its all opinions. I’d just rather stealth that is actually good, improved sap, preparation etc over a bit more damage.
On a pvp server its good, especially as there is likely to be a lot of humans. That is if you are horde.
Sounds like a true rogue right here! Love it!
I personally respecced dozens of times in beta (40 cap). Id add that when grouped, even duo-leveling, sub is just as, if not more efficient as you will be able to utilize backstab way more often, especially with a tank or pet partner
I’ll be leveling as subtlety too. Thinking of it as my “ninja build.” Plus, while playing rogue, I’m a total klepto: I have to rob every mob I pass, whether I kill them or not.
I tried combat after I got a lucky sword drop, for like 2 levels, and it bored the hell out of me.
I would recommend, if you’re gonna go stealth daggers, to spread it more into backstab / ambush spec, and not stay strictly subtlety. Assassination talents are a huge boost to damage. Take at least 3/3 Improved Gouge too, especially if playing on a PvP server.
It just depends on how you want to get from point a to point b. There are no wrong answers. Combat would probably be the most efficient but its kinda boring in my opinion.
Do whatever you like. The fun is in the journey!
The problem with leveling sub is that you’re giving up precision until 40+. This is your most valuable talent that you should never be without due to gear having no hit on it. To make things worse, you don’t have hemo either until 30+, a strike you need to make dagger effective vs mobs.
You have 2 options:
-Slot 2/2 sinister, then just juggle weapons for the situation.
-Slot 2/2 sinister, then respec later (ideally not before hemo and/or precision).
Technically, there’s a third:
Just don’t go sub past ghostly strike.
I mean, you can level sub, sure, but everything other than the occasional pvp encounter is going to be extremely painful for you
I get that its boring, but…you gotta wait till the higher levels unless you have someone helping you the entire time. The Combat talents are simply that good that you WILL level slower without them.
Let’s put it this way, ambush will hit for about 3 times that of sinister strike + much higher crit chance, on average 2 extra CPs at the opening, a weapon swap macro let’s you use sinister strike with a non dagger, 90% chance of sap not breaking stealth, lots of extra CPs on dodges.
It’s way over exaggerated on how much combat might be better than subtlety. Just remember that sinister strike is your bread and butter for damage until Hemorrhage. And don’t forget the weapon swap macro.
The + Hit, the + Skill, the extra CD’s, Endurance and Improved Sprint. Extra Dodge, Parry, and Riposte. These things add up.
Combat was a bit more efficient xp/hour overall but if that’s not something you need to worry about, level however you prefer. Personally found sub to be more “thiefy” and fun for me and at the time (late vanilla) I didn’t care about getting to cap faster or dps throughput for raids.
And? So do the subtlety talents. Sure the +skill is valuable on mobs 2+ levels higher than you to reduce glancing blow damage reduction, but 5% chance to hit is just 5%. Subtlety get Ghostly strike, 20% bonus damage on an ability worth 3 sinister strikes, 45% bonus crit chance too, cooldown reduction on vanish and blind, you have a 45% chance to add CPs on dodge, Serrated blades is a 3.5-5% damage increase on all targets, Hemorrhage is cheaper and stronger than sinister strike (with a slow weapon).
If you play daggers primarily any spec will fail, but if you swap to another weapon type the difference is negligible.
This is absolutely false. What rubbish!
You don’t need someone helping you level as subtlety anymore than you need to be Combat to level.
The only difference is efficiency at lower levels, that’s it. Combat is quicker. That doesn’t mean you can’t solo level as a dagger Subt Rogue.
This is mostly what I’m getting at. You could level without spending a talent point, if you wanted.
Except you stated, in context to the thread, that you’d need help to level as Subtlety.
Also, fwiw, precision isn’t as necessary for a Backstab stealth dagger spec. While combat thrives on auto attack damage, and hence needs the Hit% to maximize kill times, Dagger Rogues frontload it with Ambush -> KS (or gouge if lower level) -> Backstab -> Evisc, etc.
It’s almost all special attacks.
You all say this… but then by the time you are 37 or 38, running out of quests in STV and face hitting a stanglethorn tiger for the three hundo time with your green dagger of the falcon… you might be slightly tempted to switch to an easier spec 
Lets not forget this will be a first toon on a new vanilla server, so anything to make life easier will help… at least you’re not a mage that need to drink after every mob 
That’s not far off from what happened to me. Think I got a lucky Sword drop or something, bought a second sword off the AH, specc’d Combat, and did that for maybe a level or 2, then went back to Backstab spec.
Slower, sure. More fun though.