Continuing the discussion from No level Smush - Petition:
Leveling is complete within the first few weeks of the Xpac, it’s meaningless compared to Vanilla Warcraft, or toons leveled to Cap without benefits.
You can get to 120 so fast it depreciates the rest of the experience. Individuals don’t hold claim to how the next expansion is conceived. If you are going to complain, provide a real solution that would satisfy your concern.
I agree with the level “smush”. It was brought to my attention that would impair my ability to grind older instances for mounts. This is a concern because that is part of the game that I do spend of time pursuing.
Another concern is why regain levels and have to restart all over? Would that mean I have to reopen talents and skills. It feels like a penalty. [Personally; This is participation trophy. My answer initially - here is you tissue. Rest of the answer has been redacted as not to hurt any of your other feelings].
My solution is awarding Xpac completion medallions and achievements to the character sheet. Inspect a character where there would be a tab to show story completion for each Xpac. That once you earn the medallion for each segment of the story or level in that content you have capped and can return holding your max level status. This is similar to the current crafting system, only it is for Zones.
At the beginning of each Xpac, the toons are brought back to the prior level. I think 60 is good and that and every xpac we earn 40 levels, provided those levels more a little more quickly. I think it is satisfying to earn a level faster and see the bar moves motivates me to keep playing as opposed to slower progression that makes me ignore my alts.
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Leveling is a chore and a bore. If the questlines of leveling were interesting and fun, you would just do them for that reason regardless of what little level number was next to your name. But they aren’t.
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I agree, I am having a hard time leveling my DK that I love in Nasmir. It is a chore, or perhaps it is by design to make people have less alts?
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I sort of think that having more alts is welcomed as I guess it would keep the player subbed the longest.
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A whole lot of people hate the 7.3.5 level scaling changes because it increased how much time they spent leveling. Before that, you could just 1 or 2 shot everything in the world and level to max incredibly fast.
Personally I enjoy the level scaling changes, it makes for more interesting experience overall. But I also see the other side of things: many people have seen it, done it, sooooo many times that the old content has nothing of interest to them and requiring them to spend more time in that content is a “chore and a bore”.
Honestly, I would like to see:
- A level squish. My character gains nothing from 100 to 120, the level is just a gate for better gear and that really doesn’t feel like real progression to me. There are huge gaps between getting new abilities while leveling and it makes leveling feel pointless.
- Open up Northrend, Outland, Cata, MoP, WoD and Legion to low level characters. Finish the starting zone, choose anywhere but the latest xpac to go to and experience the entire content of that old xpac if you want instead of bouncing from place to place. Lots of interesting stuff in the old zones but you’re never around long enough to experience it.
- Reward veteran players with sizable xp buffs that can be optionally applied. They’ve been there, done that, too many times. Base it on achievements and it can’t be bought with gold by newbies.
- Bring back power leveling. If someone wanted to level fast, so what? Let them have a game mechanic that did that.
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one would imagine this is true, but besides enjoying those race/class/story lines, alts are for crafting. If you can craft all you own things then you have no need to communities for that. By reducing the expedience that these crafter toons are made, forces the players to rely on each other more.
This xpac I have felt this as most of my alts are being left behind and I am unable to complete some of the aspects of the game I normally would have. There is just too much content to contend with and have a cadre of alts.
Unless you are max/min progressing your characters, when does crafting come into play for that other than a gold income for various items that would aid in getting the maximum out of the character for the current roll.
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Having all the crafting is for personal use more than gold income, so I do not have to pay the inflated prices. I have a 120 warlock that does my enchantments using mat’s collected by my other toons. Obviously this toon I use to post is my inscriptions and is geared enough to tank LFR for opportunities to get the mount and pet drops. My main is a hunter and a priest - this xpac my paladin, mage, and rogue are all on hold alchemist, blacksmith, engineer are on hold.
I didn’t mean to say you as to say unless you are max/min progressing, I should have worded it differently. I was referring to the person who max/mins and goes for Grandmaster Crafting each expansion.
I too in the past had focused of every part of the game to complete as much as the expansion offered and that was when I was using pots buffs enchants gems toys and even multiple accounts online to achieve such.
In fact Crafting leveling could be on it’s own thread as there is so much others can discuss on the topic. Like you I do have a passion for crafting to provide for myself and my alts, but of late my idea of crafting is found in other games where they do it and don’t change the core activity.
Wow had fallen in the area of why bother in level crafting as it adds no value at the start of the next expansion. Same now seems to be the whole leveling. We are soon going to be level squashed. That is mega upsetting news, more than the item level squish. Again could serve itself on it’s own thread.
In closing that’s very impressive that you are doing that with your alts btw. -) I wish i had the motivation to do that in BFA.
I do agree with this thread topic though, leveling has to change and it means crafting leveling too.
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I was going to post but you wrote what I wanted to for the most part.
I’ll just add that a rework of the talent system would help…
And since they won’t invest time into updating and making the story-questing better and not feel so dated then I am very for some HUGE XP buff and power leveling options or more avenues to level for players who did it once over already.
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There are other games where crafting becomes more involved, not sure I would want that either. It is exhausting - engineering is a good example.
For leveling, I just think they could get away with a core level, and reset every xpac. Leveling is a measuring stick for story progress. They could make it that we level like crafting for each story line in a zone. We already do that with rep.
Either add more abilities back, revamp talents, or level squish. Id prefer they just revamp talents.
It’s time for a revamp, are we going to keep doing this AP system for the rest of WoWs life? I’d surely hope not.
What if;
Leveling was changed to be progressed throughout the entire expansion. Totally different than what we had seen and for example;
First patch on release we level part of the way to max level and reach a part one where we can gear and raid for the first raid patch.
On the 2nd patch we continue to level again, either with our gear we had acquired to the next stage which is like the small quest chains they normally offer but now longer as it requires us to unlock more of the story. The quest rewards for this quest line upgrades various gear items but doesn’t make current dungeon raids world quests obsolete but it does offer a slight upgrade that keeps the player wanting to complete.
How would you feel with two stage leveling through the next expansion?
To me, the simplest solution is to make each expansion separate. Now that Classic has been made you could just allow travel to past xpac’s through the caverns of time. Want to play LK? Take a portal there.
In the way you need to only worry about prof’s from the current version of the game, you would only need to worry about leveling in the newest xpac. You would need to make leveling more of a thing again though, otherwise people could have a million effective alt’s.
That would make travelling to xpac’s a travel in time, instead of a travel in space that it is right now. It would solve some things like SW burning for years on end after Cata. You’d have to grey out items from the future in each version which might be a little complex.
Its just not working trying to add more and more stuff on top of all the old stuff that’s already there. Unless you want to keep reinventing the old areas like in cata, it will never be optimal to repurpose decade plus old stuff and make a modern game out of it.
Don’t we do that now? I mean, obtaining new gear with each patch looking for something better. Azerite power, essences, etc…
Personally, I just try to complete the story as much as I can and gear my favorite toons in preparation for the next xpac as long as I am excited to see the continuation - I am not so excited for what comes next now.
Not in the sense of reaching part of the way to max level on the first release patch then waiting for the future patch to continue leveling to max level.
Two stage leveling like pathfinder part one twisted into the leveling too.
Ie; 120-125 stage 1 patch 9.1 / then 126-130 stage 2 by patch 9.3 with patches 9.2 and 9.4 the in between to cater for raids and pvp seasons.
if you started playing today at 1 and someone ran into you as 130th level, would you want to go through all those levels? No.
That is the #1 reason for reducing levels to something managable. To attract new blood.
I have to agree with that. It gets harder and harder to level a new toon. For this one, I put that windigo onsie as the entertainment value of it on my toon was the only thing driving me to do another grind.
The level boost that comes with the expansion is there for such new blood
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True, so one noob get thrown to the wolves without a clue how the game mechanics work. Then when you want that next toon… start again from scratch.