Level differences in PvP are not calculating correctly

WoW Classic WoW Classic Bug Report
1

Levels in PvP seem to mean virtually nothing. Level 30s don’t get any resists casting on level 60s. Low level melee hit all their attacks and have normal crit rate versus player characters 20+ levels above them.

It seems like none of the level related penalties are applying, I am guessing this is related to the modern client PvP scaling system or something.

As it stands if I’m fighting a 60 and a 30 rogue jumps in I have to prioritize the 30 rogue because his stunlock and extra damage is just as threatening as the level 60 player.

In actual vanilla a moderately geared 60 was like a raid boss to an army of level 30s.

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2

I too believe that in the original game it was not possible to hit anything that was +5 lvls above you, wether you were meele or caster. In some private server videos I saw that it was possible that low lvl meele was able to hit higher lvls. So my experience is foggy. Notice that that pve mobs act accordingly. As a lvl 47 rogue I will not be able to hit anything above lvl 55 for instance. Atleast in PvE. I believe in Vanilla this was also the case for higher lvled players. Yet somehow I have no issues dpsing lvl 60 players. Im gonna die, but in a mob he will die 100%, since all my abilities connect.

Casts on private servers, low lvl, were always resisted by high lvl players. I also remember this to be the cas e for the original vanilla. At this moment there seems to be no spellhit lvl difference for different lvls. It does not matter wether you fear a 60 or a 20 (if you are lvl 20 yourself for instance). It always connects. It should not.

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3

I can confirm. I had run ins yesterday for a few hours. Even level mobs resisted me more then a ?? Player

I don’t ever recall this being a thing.

?? On me? No prob. Seduce and run out of range. Just seems wild I can do that.

4

In TBC I have clear memories of 29 twinks sapping/CCing 70s consistently for the AGM chest. A miss here and there but more often things would land.

2 Likes
6

Not a correct statement, in PVP or PVE

7

Sorry my original statment was not conveying what I meant. Yes it was possible to hit higher lvl players but the miss chance was so high that you effectively died trying to 1v1 a high lvl npc. Like you did hit him no doubt but it was mostly misses and when you landed a hit chances where high it was a parry/dodge. So the 40 man hogger raid is possible because they hit him ofc, but most of the time they do not.

And my point was that the same mechanic worked like this in PvP. Most of the time players too high your lvl did not get hit a lot because of the high miss chance. And the same for spells. Sure you could hit them but most likely you would not.

Currently this is not a thing in PvP. Lvl 20 mages can sheep lvl 60 warriors no problem. My rogue can gouge anything that is ??. I think that is what is wrong. But maybe there is another video disproving it.

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8

Nah, it’s 100% busted. Should function the same way as players vs. NPCs.

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9

It was never as bad against players as mobs, and you could very much win a fight against a much higher level player. It was my policy to fight back, and occasionally I did win. This was more noticeable on the frost mage, as some classes and players could and would get kited to death even with a twenty level gap.

They will resist more, but it is nothing like a mob where you basically cannot hit it.

10

That is a good change to be fair as it levels the playing field while higher levels keep a big advantage.

11

I killed a 60 druid as a 42 hunter, in stv. And no the druid was not AFK, but actually ganked me prior and I hunted his a$$ down.

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13

There should be a difference in mob vs player miss/resists but not that much of one.

Without a doubt a level 30 should be landing maybe 10% of spells and abilities on a 60. Maybe. And any cc spells should be breaking more or less immediately if they land.

There is a slight nerf to players being overleveled compared to similar level mobs. But not that big of a difference. I have no first hand experience with this but from what I’m reading here it doesn’t sound correct at all

1 Like
14

Can people who don’t know what they’re talking about please stop posting in this forum and why is someone using TBC as an example.

Resistances in Vanilla were extremely dramatic when fighting higher level players. The current implementation is absolutely not working as intended.

Resistances in PvP were 4% for same level, 5% for one level higher, 6, 13, then 7 additional percent per level.

As it stands, I am getting hit the vast majority of the time by players 20-30 levels lower. I went to STV to finish my Skull of Impending Doom quest, and fighting lowbies was unbelievably unbearable. I was hit by maybe 10/10 Fears, 5/6 Sheeps, and every single Counterspell hit by level 30-40 players. Obviously still dead, but the fact lowbies can so reliably delay their death is quite annoying.

Every caster who played in Vanilla knew fighting a red or higher player was a death sentence as you’d just be unable to DPS him enough with the resists. You almost certainly would go OOM even if you had free reign to attack him.

2 Likes
15

Must have been a horrible druid. LOL

16

no doubt but he still should have died due to the high miss chance.

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17

I think that’s what this thread is about. In classic original, it would have been impossible as he wouldn’t have hit him. However here it is possible as it doesn’t seem to be nearly as what it was when the game first came out.

I mean, sure you still miss more, but as a 53 or whatever I was ganked 1v2 by a mage and a warrior and I was able to get the mage down to about 60% before I died… (he was 60)

That would have been extremely unlikely in original classic.

18

Reeeeeally gonna need some source from those saying it should work like it does in pve. Level 19 twinks could punch way above their weight fighting higher level players back in the day, if everything missed that wouldn’t be the case. It would also mean that allowing players into battlegrounds who were 9 levels underleveled would be completely pointless. You could always hit higher level players, you’d just be weak compared to them.

19

May the best man win. If you are using your level to your advantage then you suck anyway.

20

PvP penalties for level difference were never as dramatic as PvE. Anyone who PvP’d back then knows this.

Watching people recall things that were never true on these forums will never get old.

1 Like
21

They are not as dramatic, but they are still huge.

See Wowwiki Fandom’s page on Magical Resistance, which was sourced straight from the old vanilla page on resistances Blizzard had way back when. I still remember vividly that orange/yellow themed page with the chart on how resistances work and the chances at 25/50/75/full resist.

Please don’t comment completely false info. A player 20 levels above you as a spellcaster should be nearly impossible to kill. You run OOM from resists easily before you can kill him.

A mob 4 levels above you should have 28% resist, and every additional level is +11%.

In PvP it should be 20%, +7%.

Edit: hey, i found the blue post from way back when.

https (colon) //web (dot) archive (dot) org/web/20060529065634/http (colon) //forums (dot) worldofwarcraft (dot) com/thread.aspx?fn=blizzard-archive&t=37&p=1&tmp=1#post37

Fix the link.

"I’ve seen a number of threads recently on the boards pertaining to +spell hit chance and I’ve gathered some information for you which I hope will dispel some of the confusion. Please feel free to post your comments in a reply to this thread.

+1% spell hit chance increases the base chance for a spell to land against a target by 1%

If your target is the same level as you, a spell has a base chance to hit of 96%.

If the target is +1 level compared to you: 95%

+2 levels: 94%

+3 levels: 83% if the target is a mob, 87% if the target is a player.

+4 levels: mob: 72% player: 80%

+5 levels: mob: 61% player: 73%

Etc…

If you wear a +1% spell hit chance item, the above percentages will increase by 1. +2% gives +2.

Etc…

For binary spells only, there is an additional modifier for the resistance of the victim to your particular spell school: fire, frost, shadow, nature, arcane. That modifier is multiplied by your hit chance to get your actual chance to land. This is done with binary spells only, because they never do partial damage.

Example:

Eyonix the Mage (level 60) fires a frost bolt at Yeti of Doom (level 63). Eyonix is also wearing a total of +6% spell hit gear. Yeti of Doom has frost resistance such that he takes 50% from level 60 frost attacks. So, heres the hit calculation:

0.83 (83% for +3 levels mob) + 0.06 (+6% spell hit) = 0.89

0.89*0.5 (50% damage from frost) = 0.445.

The game will roll a number between 0 and 1, and if its less than 0.445, the frost bolt will hit for full damage. Otherwise, a resist message will appear.

2nd Example:

After the resist, Eyonix decides to fire a fireball at Yeti of Doom. Eyonix still has +6% spell hit. Fireball is not a binary spell. Heres the calculation:

0.83+0.06= 0.89

The game will roll a number between 0 and 1, and if its less than 0.89, the fireball will hit. Otherwise, a resist message will appear. After the fireball lands, the game will then apply spell resistance to determine a partial resist, if any. Assuming the yeti also has 50% fire resistance, on average, 50% of the damage will be resisted.

I hope that illuminates the impact of +spell hit gear on magical combat"

  • WoW CM Tseric, 10/5/2005

Now @Umderbheite, please defend your “Watching people recall things that were never true on these forums will never get old” cause that appears to be you, Mr Retailer

1 Like
22

Good find.

Let’s hope this gets fixed. Hopefully a lot of the bugs we’ve been seeing aren’t Blizz’s way of giving the new kids on the block a softer landing like they are used to with modem wow.