Ok. You are right.
2 Likes
I dont really see how it does not fit and expanding upon WoWâs afterlife lore is the ONLY thing I actually did like about SL. But again, if you wouldnât have written anything and you dont like it, thereâs really not too much to talk about.
Youâre doing a bit of a misdirect there. The fact that I wouldnât write an afterlife doesnât mean I wouldnât write anything. I would have made an expansion named Shadowlands which actually had a shadowy version of all the existing reality in the warcraft worldâŚjust like the Emerald Dream had been hinted about during Vanilla as being a green nature version of all the existing geography of the world but without sentient mortal civilizations. Admittedly, Metzen got the idea for both of those from his appreciation for dungeons and dragons and their Feywild and Shadowfel concepts. But we liked them too, so I would have enjoyed it more if Shadowland followed the vanilla and wrath of the lich king concepts of a shadowland.
Dono what to say here, I liked Shadowlands being a afterlife instead of a vague shadow realm.
SL as a whole wasnât terrible per se. There were a lot of enjoyable moments. My biggest issue is that Dollar Store Lich King felt forced. If blizz had hinted at his existence prior to SL, it mightâve gone over better for a lot of folks
But thatâs really it. Thatâs really my main complaint since I been redoing SL again on the side.
5 Likes
A lot of the Shadowlands issues are being suddenly told things instead of ever being built up to or shown.
While I have issues with the cosmology of the afterlife as Shadowlands depicted it, I think I could have accepted it more had what we got with Shadowlands been at least hinted at prior.
Like, take Ardenweald as an example. Had in say, Legion, someone hinted that there was more to the whole âwild gods go to the ED after being killedâ thing than we knew, and it might all be a sham? Ok, then Ardenweald doesnât feel like an abrupt retcon. Because archdruids who have spent time in the Emerald Dream should have known that the story with Wild Gods going to the Dream between deaths and rebirths was not true.
Likewise, if we got more than Zulâjin having visions from da spirits about Sylvanas as Warchief during Legion and vague hints Sylvanas had some extra-secret other plan during BfA, maybe Zovaal wouldnât have felt so flat.
Like, Iâm fine conceptually with us only visiting four of the afterlife realms out of an infinite number. It makes sense that weâre only visiting these four because these four are where the problem is. But maybe there should have been a sign of others existing elsewhere too, instead of it just being a âtrust me bro, they exist.â Why not have the leaders of some of these other realms show up when it was clear the whole of the Shadowlands was under threat. Instead, we just get the four pocket afterlife realmsâ representatives, and it just so conveniently happens that these four are also the only four who have sigils Zovaal needs, and it also just so happens that these four plus Zovaal must be the only people important enough to have their own prototype forms in Zereth Mortis, andâŚ
Too many sudden plot contrivances, not enough story build-up.
4 Likes
Shadowlands is what happens when you let a drunken sex pest fail upwards into a creative lead, are forced to abort his story midstream, then replace him with a guy who thinks mystery box is just the coolest who decides to tear out all of the settingâs wiring and replace it with his private collection of vintage jarred farts.
Zovaal single-handedly engineered every single occurrence in all of Reality down to the second but couldnât plan ahead far enough to account for The Mawmawâs Walker potentially thwarting him.
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Kagehiro, thank you for confirming at last that Iâm not alone in thinking of someoneâs nanaâs walker whenever weâre called the âMaw Walkerâ.
Though I admit, we differ in that Iâd assumed I was being assigned to take maw-maw out for walks. Not that I was the walker she used. But I can see that too!!
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The mental imagery of twenty-five crooked with age, Old Home escapees, all hobbling slowly, inexorably, inevitably, bent over their walkers towards Zovaal, who is cowering in abject terror, does give me some joy.
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Have you ever DMâd a group of murderhobos before?
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Once a week, if I can help it.
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Then you should absolutely empathize with Zovaal in this matter.
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I feel like if I can herd cats once a week as a vaguely humanoid shaped pile of depression and puns, Zovaal can manage with his powers of perfect prophecy, haha
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AHEM!!
As a long-time, multiple-decades, multiple edition DM.
I have zero empathy with Zovaal. He had more than a couple chances to put a stop to the adventurers trailing him, and not only did not do so, he even broadcasted his ultimate plans to them. He let his Number 2 switch sides after literally giving her back part of her soul, the good part, when he could have just blasted her or dropped her in the same pocket heâd kept her blue in. And worst of all, at no point did he simply turn to the murder-hobos-for-hire fearless and selfless adventurers and offer them a chance to join his side, complete with a corner of reality to shape as they wished.
Zovaal planned for absolutely everything from before time as we know it began, but never once planned to take the most powerful weapons ever seen in the cosmos (us) and turn them to his side.
Even Darth Vader and Palpatine knew you always at least make the offer to join the dark side.
Also, you and Kagehiro are my hiroes of today.
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Iâm running a 2e game currently, as something of a museum piece for most of the players who have never touched AD&D. Dwarf Fighter: 4 Int, 5 Wis. Comparing him to a cat is probably being generous.
3 Likes