This add-on is one of those add-ons that literally inhibits NEW players from progressing and experiencing wow to the fullest
. This add-on promotes elitist attitude.
We all know the feeling of being rejected on the same level key because people want carries, this add-on provides that in a single click or mouse over.
Couple of mates , who is 1 month into wow, complained about being rejected in groups for hours.
Gone are the days where people are just in it for the experience. And we all know that is what retail is all about now .
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Why risk and subject yourself and the rest of the group to a potential wipe fest by brining less qualified players? Key holders have the right to bring who they want, and that is generally the most experienced.
New players should be running their own keys this stage of the season if they don’t have the experience in io.
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You realize even without the addon I could just look up your character and see what keys you have done on your armory? Also sitting in a disaster run for an hour isn’t really an experience I want to take part of which is why I use this addon to make groups that end up successful the vast majority of the time.
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It will never go away, and is being incorporated into the next season of M+ by Blizz permanently. I see your side of it completely, and understand how it can be frustrating for someone trying to get into mythic plus. However, it can be a valuable tool to help push one’s own key if you are looking for players of similar or better experience than oneself, especially in keys at high levels. On the bad side, I’ve seen it tear apart longtime guilds because (for instance) of someone wanting to push their score and old guildies who don’t care for m+ cannot understand that. On the good side, as mentioned above, it can help you build a far more successful group for your own key if your goal is to time. Not saying you don’t know that, just rambling a bit I guess. As your friend has found out, it is really tough to get into groups without having a score, and often even then a good score is not enough if you don’t bring the utility that that particular group wants. You can’t blame the keyholder for using raiderio/wanting to succeed. It’s honestly sometimes easier to just push your own key.
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Why don’t you take your friend to your keys?
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I don’t see why you think that experienced players should have to teach your friends who have been playing for 1 month how to play.
They should be running their own keys, with players with similar levels of experience to them.
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Well we would bring them in to keys, but as players just playing a game, we experienced players don’t play 24/7 when some of those inexperienced ones are online.
Wow was once a community oriented place where people actually enjoy and experience online learning but of course there are elitist that exist. but now… everyone is an elitist if you get my drift.
so you want us to gear your friends up and teach them so you don’t have to? that doesn’t sound entitled at all
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You only put up with people not knowing the dungeon because it took so long to replace people in vanilla and mobs would respawn.
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This far in, the “elitists” are the people who have ALREADY done the learning. There are still people who haven’t learned and those are the people they should be playing with. This game has always had a stratified community, you can climb the ladder, if you want, or you can just find your favorite rung and hang out there with people like yourself. It all exists.
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I would disagree. I think that RIO forces players to be held accountable and contradicts the “rush” nature that players have instilled in them.
The fact is, it is completely possible to get to a high IO through pugging. The issue is that it takes a long time because it is a gradual process. People aren’t willing to do every dungeon at level 5 so that they can do every dungeon at level 7-10 in order to do every dungeon at level 11-14 so they can finally do +15. They get mad when people reject them and in most cases completely guess on why they got rejected. It’s only an assumption it is based on IO.
No, it invokes an entitled attitude.
No… here are the days were we can verify someone based on their history. The issue is that people are mad they can’t skip to a point where they feel entitled in being at.
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(Not that I disagree with the sentiment) Wouldn’t that imply the assumption is correct, if there’s an implied connection between the subset of " people getting mad when people reject them, and guessing on why they got rejected", and “people who aren’t willing to go through the gradual process”?
Side note: I’ve never found that it actually requires the extent of every dungeon to “build IO for invites”. I still technically don’t have KSE purely because I still have one at +4, and RNG hasn’t brought up a higher one on any character yet.
Wow was once a community oriented place where people actually enjoy and experience online learning but of course there are elitist that exist. but now… everyone is an elitist if you get my drift.
I really can’t think of a time when anyone ever “enjoyed” watching people learn basics. It’s one thing to collectively learn new challenges together (that’s a bond that can drive tight friendships), but I really can’t think of a time people particularly “enjoyed” bringing someone new in after, and watching the new person fumble at things everyone’s already gone through the learning process for.
If anything, the struggle of constantly losing their best players to further-progressed guilds, while having to find “new” people to fill their ranks at entry-level content was one of the things that crushed/frustrated “feeder” guilds back in the day - we’re talking Burning Crusade type era.
bingo. i’ve had very little time to play so i’m way behind the curve on my rshaman, just healed my first 10 yesterday.
but, and this is the key here, i don’t expect the people running 15 and higher to invite me to their keys so i can practice there. i don’t even apply to those because there are 20 better candidates even in the limited healer pool. i don’t know why people would expect me to invite somebody who’s never done even a +2 when i run my own keys either.
yep, that’s it. they gear to 200ish just by WQs and covenant, then get mad that nobody will take them to a +10. “but that’s where the gear i want is!” it’s partly because there’s a big misunderstanding among the worst players that ilvl is the only thing that matters, which has nothing to do with rio.
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No there could be several different reasons… they could want a different class, they could have more candidates than time to vet them, or they could just not like their name. Unless something is explicitly said, they have no understanding as to why they didn’t get invited to a group.
Only if you are the most unlucky person in WoW. However, it does require building up if you aren’t creating a network of people that you’ve ran with.
You’re about to fall into a smooth brain black hole.
It’s my comfort zone.
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Just thought I’d offer a fair warning
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I wonder how much of it comes from Blizzard’s UI too. It’s easier to jump to assumptions when you see a message like “You have been declined” as opposed to “This group is looking for someone else”. Maybe even if it displayed something like “30 pending applications”, or w/e, it’d make it more obvious to the new person that it’s not personal? Idk.
The other reason I thought of as well is people who will reject anyone from X server.
Obviously, no one explanation is ever going to account for 100% of cases or anything, and multiple reasons can be going on at the same time (not even just multiple reasons at different times), but one factor can affect how big the others are. If the issue in the grind is that it’s a lot of work, and it’s harder TO grind from being behind, there’s definitely some level of “Need experience to apply for the job, but can’t get experience without a job” type nonsense going on (not that THAT’s new), so it’s not necessarily an unfounded/wrong assumption overall - even if it can be wrong in specific instances.
Edit: Hrm, now that I think about it more, that might even help make it more frustrating/pervasive. With something like class or role, you have obvious instances to point to at least some of the time - you get declined, a few minutes later the group is re-listed with something like “LF DPS HEROISM” or “Melee only” or “Ranged pref” or w/e. With something like “IO”, you know that it’s there some of the time but not all of the time, it’s significant in the overall system, you can almost never point to it on any specific instance, everyone has or can use plausible deniability, so it’s living rent-free on any possible occasion. Short of someone literally whispering you to go “LOL YOUR IO IS TOO LOW” I guess (do people even do that?).
Like, it’s a different story if you’re talking about a Heroism class vs. not or something really drastic (and that’s often advertised anyway), or you have an offensive name or something, but in a hypothetical case that’s more something like optimal Heroism class (e.g. Fire mage) vs. relatively less optimal (e.g. BM/Survival Hunter), the assumption wouldn’t be totally a non-factor - some people might take a 1k IO BLAH over a 400 IO OPTIMAL BLAH.
yep, that’s it. they gear to 200ish just by WQs and covenant, then get mad that nobody will take them to a +10. “but that’s where the gear i want is!” it’s partly because there’s a big misunderstanding among the worst players that ilvl is the only thing that matters, which has nothing to do with rio.
I honestly wish they’d invest in better open-world content, just so the very nature of things like “WQ” level gear have some gameplay/skill/learning behind them, which can translate to SOMETHING for other content, rather than being about completing chores like “match turtles” or “Flight School” type nonsense. Blizzard do seem to be trying to make catchup/starter gear let people move ahead in steps (and let it substitute for some experience), rather than have it be completely discarded as worthless/meaningless by the community.
I can’t imagine WQ’s/Anima being compelling content for someone who does only that type of content, so it kinda falls flat for that audience, and I can’t imagine it being anything but boring for someone who’s using it to get ahead/fill in gaps, and if it isn’t actually helping THAT audience either, what IS the point of Anima/WQ/Emissary loot going that high?
I actually would agree, but I also feel like it won’t matter. It’s just like dating… sometimes people say “it’s not you, it’s me” and that doesn’t make it any different than rejecting because of the other person. I do think it could mitigate some effects.
That’s not the point. Whether people are assuming correctly or not has no purpose in what I’m saying. It’s the fact that many people would automatically assume this is the reason without a legitimate understanding except for “You application has been denied”. Yet, they find this is enough “evidence” to come to forums and talk about RIO discrimination like they’re the subject matter expert and try to fix a problem based on that skewed logic.
It’s not really. If I have a group with two casters, I’m not going to look for a 3rd caster. If I have 10 FOTM caster classes in queue they would be more likely to assume it’s because of their raider score. This is literally Schrodinger’s Mythic Plus Group in action. People getting rejected don’t know the reason and there are several different reasons. Until they open the “box” (figuratively speaking), they don’t know and acting upon it before doing so is ridiculous.
And that’s okay. It’s up to the group leader to decide the person who joins their group. If the group leader wants to reject someone based on IO, that’s okay. If the group leader wants to reject someone based on their server, that’s okay too. Why would you want to play with someone that discriminates against you based on the server you play anyways? The reason doesn’t matter. Even if it’s a terrible reason.
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The underlying problem isn’t with raider io, but the simple lack of people running their own keys. You get 30+ people applying to your keys all the time and you only have 4 slots to fill. So 26 out of 30 applicants don’t end up getting accepted. There’s easily 4-5 times more people applying to keys than running their own and there’s a number of reasons for that (don’t want to run their own group, don’t like their key, only need specific dungeons for io score, etc).
So the TLDR is there’s an oversaturation of applicants and people are going to pick the higher iLvl and IO score players. The truth of the matter is you can’t get declined from your own key.