I’m gonna play my DK no matter what, but I do ask that if they go for a rework to not increase the complexity of the core rotation.
I LIKE my very simple core rotation, thank you.
5 Likes
Frost doing well on the general didn’t mean it was the best performing, there weren’t any in the top 10 on any fight by the end of last raid. Examine the data closer.
Also probably a small amount of people because a small amount of raid groups can cover for the dk in question not doing mechanics during breath if at all.
3 types of lies my dude. Lies damn lies and statistics. Larger number of players more swing, smaller number of players less performance swing. Again the general chart doesn’t match the actual top performing specs on a given fight.
Keep going though, you’ve been a big help to the community so far!
Okay, more proof you didnt look at any of the data provided in the post. so, lets actually look at it.
First, lets look at season 3 of shadowlands. Compare performance in raid vs class representation.
Most played class in m+, heroic, and mythic raids, with a total of 4.89 million samples taken from warcraftlogs, and raider.io (so you can no longer play the “too few samples card”) was hunter, druid, then paladin.
The winner in overall dps performance? Priest, then DH, then DK.
Okay, so, following your logic, these are obviously the most played specs in the game right? The data entirely disagrees. Hell, demon hunter is one of the least represented classes in the game, though is heavily skewed towards DPS players, as expected. Priest? dead center of the pack, and their healing specs were pretty damn good that season as well. DK is higher than average there, but, youll notice, that 45% of those DKs were playing blood, not the obviously well tuned DPS specs.
Or, is 4.89 million samples still not enough to convince you that tuning has no correlation to class representation?
3 Likes
Why not unholy in ss1? Because then your example falls apart.
The chart you linked in your first response is the way it is because a small number of players played within close range of the best parse for a given fight on every fight.
sure, here we go
would you look at that. Affli the best performing overall in the raid… yet warlocks the 2nd least represented. wonder why.
Also Retribution. literally the worst dps spec in the game in this sample. yet, its the most played paladin spec, and the 2nd highest representation overall for a class.
5 Likes
Numbers blur when I try and zoom in.
Nvm they cleared. Pretty sure destro and demo were both better till near the end of castle nath, so that would explain the low parse numbers.
Because holy and prot weren’t good in season one last expac. You need more filters especially for classes that have 3 different roles. You noticed this in your OP, when the DPS specs lowered in performance the tank spec got more players last expac.
What you’re leaving out is unholy having over 300k parses pre nerf in SL an going down to 90k after.
1 Like
Think you misunderstood. was talking about Sepulcher in the original post, where unholy and frost were both tuned quite well, yet, blood made up a MASSIVE portion of the DK population representation. Why? cause it got a damn good tier set and was fun.
That was not excluded actually. All the data presented was taken across the entire tier, which is why theres so god damn many samples.
As for there being 300k pre-nerf parses, not sure thats even possible when it was nerfed week 2 of raid (before mythic even opened btw)? Seems like youre massively overstating things.
1 Like
Yes, blood was considered near mandatory because of how well it performed. I knew a tonne of people that swapped and loved it because of how strong it was. Not just from DPS dk to tank, lots of tanks swapped just for the raid performance.
Oh but I’m not, I was shocked when I first saw it.
Too bad we can’t go back week by week for logs.
I’d also like to point out the new trees consisted of a massive rework for every spec and class.
Why yes, yes we can.
Lets look at heroic first week of nathria!
https://web.archive.org/web/20201215023130/https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26/
huh… 26k unholy parses, not 300k. and, also not the most represented class in the raid. quite curious.
What about the week after?
24k unholy parses that week, and that was the reset after it was nerfed. Population barely changed.
3 Likes
Huh almost like there weren’t that many people in heroic in the first week.
but, you said there was 300k parses week 1 did you not? where are those parses you speak of? pullin numbers out of nowhere for the sake of your argument isnt a good look.
7 Likes
And linking low pop heroic week one is a worse stance to take because it isn’t intellectually honest.
If you had the normal numbers you’d have linked them yes?
The actual issues with Dk are see saw balance and being terrible damage outside CDs. Our mythic plus rep is god awful because bad damage out of CDs. PvP is a whole other ball of wax but there again, massive unholy rep at the start of DF and as soon as the nerfs came in population tanked. It isn’t always one thing that causes that. However to say that performance doesn’t affect population at all should and will instantly discredit a large part of your or anyone’s opinions.
Sadly, the normal numbers dont appear to have been grabbed by the internet archive. even by december 31st. so, no way to look at them the same way. Seems to have gotten an API error from wcl.
Unholy wasnt nerfed at the start of dragonflight…? it was buffed… massively.
2 Likes
Thats where the big rep was in the first week for SL.
Unholy was the number two spec for rep behind DH at the start of DF in PvP. From 0 to 1800 in solo it was number one for a week, pre nerf. After the nerfs till now both unholy and frost have little to no rep in PvP. Only outlaw rogue is worse for melee.
Sadly I didn’t screen shot the PvP rep from the start of this expac, the last time I saw anything like that was wrath.
Anyway, if you want a spec rework just make your case for it in regard to a given spec. As I said earlier every spec got a rework by virtue of the new trees. Some did better than others.
we can still look at that data live on WCL right now.
yep, unholy not being represented.
If youre too lazy to click through and filter, heres an image. This is normal btw. so, cant say no one did it.
1 Like
I’ve confused you. My point about unholy this expac pertained to PvP. I’ve edited my last post to reflect that.
Though I have to say this is pretty clear
Someone who puts together something like this clearly has a valuable point to get across. I hope for all of our sakes they see it and listen finally
10 Likes
Yea I can understand that.
I think its damage if done by a robot is actually fine, the issue is that both builds are actually hard to optimize, people liked to meme on obliteration in the past of just hit the light up buttons but the truth is that if you mess up even 1 or 2 globals of the windows (which with movement or mechanics isn’t hard to do) it will massively mess up your damage.
The big issue is out of your cds it does just feel super weak and wimpy, not like a DEATH KNIGHT should feel. And if you are not a strongly skilled player (aka you are the average player) you won’t feel mega strong IN the cds either because it is easy to mess up.
2 Likes
This comes from the fact that frost is actually very hard to optimize and kinda scuffed to play. Obliteration isn’t just hit the light up buttons, it actually has a very high skill cap where messing 1 or 2 globals up massively ruins your damage, and then breath is obviously very punishing as well if you are inexperienced. Breath needs, what I would call unintuitive, interactions with AMS/AMZ to really squeeze out the most damage as well.
Lower skilled players are going to mess up both of these playstyles because the spec has ZERO options for damage that isn’t completely pigeonholed into cd windows.
1 Like