I agree, KM has janky scaling for crit, but frost (and UH) are in a much better spot compared to before.
Are they though? I dont see it for frost AT ALL. I see something that is going to get even harder to balance due to 2h vs DW being a thing now.
Coming back for S4…is there any point in playing a Frost DK vs a Unholy DK for DPS? Looking at the raid logs Frost is always dead last or in the bottom 5 in output. Archon has it as C tier for raid and M+ while Unholy is B tier. It’s been like this for years now. Is it the same in S4?
Thats the issue with data aggregators. They dont tell you how or why people are doing certain things. Frost and unholy have been pretty close in dps for majority of this expansion. Now, this isnt to say that there isnt some difference when you look at logs. There are fights that look better for one spec or the other based on how fast theyre killed. This is because they could have been in thekr cooldowns at the end of it.
This is my prediction for the Frost DK for War Within expansion. And, I am not saying anything negative about others’ opinions. If you want to be optimistic, go ahead. I was like that for years and years and it is fine to feel that way. I have played DK since the original version. I have seen it go from great to what it is now. Having said all that…here is my prediction…
Frost DK becomes mediocre dps spec just like it is now and thats what will happen in the war within.
mark these words, shoot me a pm or whatever in a year or two. I’ll have a good laugh with you about it.
Once the tuning takes place, Frost will be done. They will have a short time in the sun at the beginning of the expansion, then it will be all over after some balance passes. It happens every time.
Oh ok. I was looking at some of the log rankings and Frost seemed to be behind Unholy on most fights. But if you say they’re pretty close I will give Frost a go and see how it feels.
Yo someone tell me why newest talent tree rework is actually worse than live, actually worse than any iteration of the class tree we have seen. It is even more locked into mandatory talents than it was before. Forced to path through even more useless unattractive talent nodes in order to reach the absouteltly mandatory talent pickups that we must have. Things like deaths echo for every spec in AoE is a must have. WillofN for Blood Dk is not an optional talent node, and is now even harder to take. This is crazy everytime they try to make our talents better they just make them worse.
It’s literally the best version of the class tree we’ve had to date.
Paladins in PvE objectively have 0 flexibility because they need all 11 points to clear their bottom throughput and the prior 19 are also “mandatory”.
This DK tree by comparison has an easy 3-4 flex points in PvE.
You literally path through Blood Draw and get another free defensive perk on the way through to Death’s Echo. How is that remotely “harder to take”?
It can already be talented to summon a skeletal mage, right? Isn’t that enough?
Enjoying the entire unholy tree and can see different routes I can take depending on what people style they want to play. Can’t wait to see what the two skills will be that are still work in progress.
My only thing that I would change and I have seen it before is abomination / army a choice node instead of using two points if you want abomination.
New Dk tree is acutal trash. Still hard locked into relish in blood of pres of ebon blade to get any where on the rightside of the tree feels bad. Purg still gated behind a crapy death strike dmg proc. blood shot now three points to get the NDI talent and iron heart. Leeching strikes, Blood feast, and mark of blood still exist and r the most useless garbage in the game. 0/10 rework.
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It doesn’t seem the development team is really trying or maybe they are just kind of disconnected from what the players want. Seems the whole expansion is being rushed, that was a super quick alpha. Maybe this is the future of the game since Microsoft purchased Activision Blizzard. Let’s hope not. 
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I just started to play DK as blizzard has obviously intended…by rolling a paladin.
So few buttons to press that my bars are mostly empty.
Holy power is virtually limitless and not a tragic death spiral of builder/spenders.
Nothing hits like a wet noodle ie howling blast and frost strike.
Far better mobility.
Better defensives and utilities.
An ‘execute’ you can use pretty much whenever.
Quarterly reworks.
Whoever is in charge of death knight development needs to be fired.
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Make sure to transmog yourself to be really edgy so you can roleplay DK.
You say that like we don’t typically take that already?
I’ll agree with that, but we also have much better options than a default to purg.
Unless the NYI talents are literally dumpster fires, it’s fine.
Leeching Strikes, don’t really care.
Blood Feast isn’t gating anything you can’t get another way if you don’t want to take it.
Mark of Blood is a niche talent and won’t get taken given the way we manage our Bone Shield stacks with Tombstone.
If you’re just looking for negatives you’ll find them, but stop acting like Blood didn’t get improved. It was never getting a full rework, and Blizzard made that perfectly clear.
I am acting like blood didnt improve because the truth is it didnt really change all that much. These changes did not address any of the real issues the spec is experiencing. Even after freeing up 6 talent points we are still very restricted in pathing. Bad talent picks are guarding the path to good talent choices. The more bad you HAVE to take to get to the good the less good that good becomes. Crimson Scourge still does not proc unless you have no DnD on the ground. So all the CS talents become useless with Deaths Echo.
We only have those options now because the trink exists. Wont be around come season 1. Purg is 100% required in high M+ pushing and mythic progression raid, but judging by ur warcraftlogs page you wouldnt know that would you.
LMAO who says I dont know on a feedback forum dude. Either do your homework or dont comment. Yes we take it right now on live despite it never procing bc rapid decomp and coag are worth it, but the wasted talent point feels bad, and devaules the talents we path through it to take.
You should care. These talents are worse than weak, they are meaningless. Not even Niche. You loose player power just talenting them, and in most cases (Mark of Blood) you loose player power even pressing it. The more trashcan options we have in our tree the worse overall the tree becomes. These could very easily be replaced by talents that are actual options for us to use instead of bland useless filler.
I am not looking for negatives. I am pointing out valid critisms of the class and spec. It needs a full rework, and no we are not getting that, but that does not mean I am going to stay silent about all of the issues it is currently experiencing and it is super strange to me that you are so easily offened by my critism.
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I’m not offended* by your criticism*, I’m just questioning the validity of your point of view.
One, cool attempt at being condescending.
Two, yeah, we do run Purg by default. Part of that is Umbilicus Eternus being niche/situationally valuable (though still usable) and Bonestorm more or less being a dumpster fire capstone right now. You apparently missed my point on being able to do something other than just hardline default Purg with the new talent set. Likelihood is we still will hardline Purgatory, but now we’ve got more stuff worth using in our capstones.
The reason I asked if you were implying that we don’t already take those is that there actually are better options now in the Beta. Do you or do you not have Beta access?
I wasn’t asking if we take both of those talents on Retail. Are you incapable of reading?
And then you’d be complaining because we couldn’t take everything in the tree, right?
There were going to be dud talents. There will always be dud talents. Blizzard does not create every talent to be useful all of the time, or even particularly often. Not saying I agree with that, but eh.
Some of your criticisms* towards the spec seem to be coming from the perspective of having not actually played or looked into Blood and how’s it actually doing on the beta. You’re screeching into the wind about talent nodes on a calculator.