At the end of the day… All things considered… World of Warcraft is still a very good Game. And at its worst… it still better than a lot of whats out there.
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I agree with that
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Id say more it has the potential to be a good game.
Shadowlands was not fun for me.
Dragonflight? I hope thats fun.
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Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
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At this point I’m just waiting for a better alternative. I’m not in love with the game anymore but its still better than most other mmos. Blizzard is very lucky to be in competition with incompetents.
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Fair point.
I’m not sure what that says about who’s standards, but it is a fair point. 
In certain things, yes. In other things, no. Some things it’s been getting worse on with every expansion, like PvP. World content, World Quests, etc.
It USED to have a huge leg up on customer service and knowing what’s good for the ‘spirit of the game’ and enforcing rules like… remember when they yeeted that paladin for bugging to get world first 80? Didn’t do it for Wrath Classic. Different dev teams and managers, really changes the game and how it’s played.
I end up playing other games a lot more when I’m not playing with friends, if it wasn’t for that I don’t think I’d log on much. Even Roleplay took a pretty nosedive with SL.
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I’m having more fun in Wrath atm.
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there are better alternatives, some people are just too hard headed and addicted to WoW to admit it.
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I just completed the achievement It’s in the Mix, where you have to spawn and kill 7 different bosses by tossing specific proportions of colored slimes into a pool for each boss. There is a leveling quest and sometimes a world quest ongoing that require players to throw random slimes into the Pool of Mixed Monstrosities. These players have no way of knowing that there is an achievement that following their quest will interfere with. And when they try to help, they will wreck your attempt, because they have no idea how it works. It made me want to smash in someone’s face, and it wasn’t the levelers who thought they were helping.
A mean-spirited person would think they were doing it to mess with their achievement, when actually they have no idea. I saw comments to that effect on wowhead.
Totally toxic game design that makes people hate other players who have done nothing they had a way of knowing was wrong.
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What’s better and what’s good and what’s bad is all a matter of opinion. No use arguing it. For me, WoW is a fun game and worth playing most of the time.
At the end of the day… All things considered… World of Warcraft used to be a LOT better than it is today
It was hollowed out to chase cash shop metrics after gold was placed on the cash shop
Player retention has been absolutely rock bottom ever since gold was added to the cash shop. Only other event that caused such a steep drop was Ion’s midguided attempt to kill of flying after selling endless flying mounts on the cash shop for years and tons of prior xpacs with flying that were massively successful.
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So… do it when folks aren’t questing if it bothers you that much, or better, don’t do the achievement if you now think it is such a toxic thing - you constantly chasing a carrot which has no meaningful impact on the game just means that you say that you want more of it
Don’t like it? Don’t do it
You feel compelled to do it? That’s on you
No, its not “toxic game design” to have quests and achievements overlap considering they rarely interject with each other in ways that have any meaningful bearing on it
The zone wasn’t designed for you and you alone, which is what you are implicitly saying by saying “I just completed”; yes there’s an achievement for it, and if you want to have an easier time doing it you group up with other people to make sure you can coordinate it properly, and there’s 7 different bosses meaning that they possibility of “Dangit, we got one too much of X thus’ we got the wrong one” doesn’t happen often unless you try to do it on your own and other folks in the area are playing the game as well
It is a MMO, not a single player game - even for folks who play it as a single player game, guess what … it is a MMO with other people in it that can affect and interact with the world just the same as you
The real reason why folks are as negative towards WoW is because of mentalities and attitudes like yours; the game has flaws, Blizzard as a company certainly does too - but very little to none of it falls under nonsensical stuff like “Toxic game design”
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I have hope for DF. It’s been very enjoyable so far in the beta.
Except that’s not the case at all
First of all subscribers and player retention is two different metrics, and player retention SKYROCKETED when gold was added to the shop because at the same time it also meant that you could take your gold and turn that into game time
Subscribers have dropped but we don’t know by how much since two reasons;
- They are lower than before and thus’ looks bad to showcase them
- Due to the cash shop they are less reliant on subscribers and since folks also can trade gold for game time we don’t know how much of an impact subscribers even has to this day
“WoW used to be a lot better than it is today” is s subjective statement and has no actual bearing on reality, sorry but it doesn’t
uh no dude, player retention has dived
actually got worse from legion > bfa > shadowlands
shadowlands actually has the lowest player retention of any wow xpac in history
player retention hasn’t ‘skyrocketed’ ever since gold was put on the cash shop
cash shop revenue skyrocketed
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I’m not saying I don’t agree about SL… but my dude, you talk about retention but aren’t providing any kind of evidence to back it up. If a claim is made, you should back it up.
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Have you done this achievement? Players are set against each other to ruin each other’s content, without knowing that in trying to help they are doing so.
No. This is a quest intentionally designed to set players against other players. Stop making up rationales. It’s not a me thing vs a “you’re a god and you say this is fine” thing.
But you’re 100% fine with game design that is intended to make players hate each other. Got it.
Absolutely false. I have done the leveling quest and the world quest, and had no idea that in doing so I was messing up other people’s achievements.
Why do you support game design that is intended to make players hate each other? I’m not understanding why you are blaming “people” for bad game design that YOU specifically want to ruin other players’ experience.
Does it make you feel all smarmy and wise to say that “this is an MMO, players should have to fight against each other to complete content whose specifics were intentionally hidden to cause friction between different player groups”?
I don’t understand why you think it’s a good game design to make players feel bad that they played the game. Why is it you think that it’s good for max level players to be trashing levelers who are doing quests as designed?
Is it that you want all those people you despise so much you want them to have a bad experience in the game to quit? Do you normally trash players and go out of your way to try to drive them out of your game, an “MMO” that you seem to want to play as a single player game?
What an odd perspective, that devs should quit making real content and just design the game so players will fight with each other and blame each other rather than the designers who are at fault.
The real reason why folks are as negative towards wow as they are is because of attitudes and mentalities like yours, that are intended to cause bullying and harassment as part of your “fun” at other players’ expense.
The MMO genre does not require content design whose sole purpose is to make players blame other players for failing to kowtow to players like you.
Videogames are supposed to be fun, not a series of frustrations resulting from hidden game mechanics and player interactions intended to make players hate each other.
Does it make you feel clever to say that making players blame each other for design flaws is what MMO’s are all about?
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Well I’m not addicted so please show me that MMO with amazing art style and fluidity and I’ll play it.
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Wow is… Well it’s a game. I’ve never thought it was a particularly great game, but a lot of really great people play it. When I think of my favorite expansions, it’s the friends I remember, not the gameplay.
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