I disliked when Blizzard gave every healer a defensive magic dispel on a cooldown. It feels homogenous in the same way that the prevalence of interrupts does now. This was one of the PvE changes that coincided with the steady decay of class identities.
All healers can dispel magic defensively. My post was about defensive magic dispel. Not offensive, which is off topic, and many other classes and non-healers can do offensive magic dispels too, which I already touched on before as well.
If all healers can dispel magic defensively, then itâs not as powerful as you keep making it out to sound. Itâs not a unique thing anymore for Priests, and it hasnât been for a long time. And Iâd like to reiterate that itâs not going back to how it used to be where Priests were the main magic dispellers, so itâs useless to talk in circles about that.
The poisons and curses right now arenât even that crippling to the point where you must have a dispel for them. Other expansions had curses that would just flat up blow up a dps if you didnât dispel it.
Also, the damage patterns on the bosses with poisons are not as brutal as the Worm boss was from Lair because the damage goes out for 10s, and then you have 20-30s to heal the group before the next round. Itâs physically not possible to die if you use one defensive.
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So, the general consensus is not to give Priests another dispel type among the forums got it. Interesting to me, Iâll be honest.
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Itâs not as powerful since all healers can do it.
But it was powerful when only 1 class can do it in the case of classic Horde, only Priests can do it with the exception of a warlock with fel Hunter.
So how do we make it seem powerful again?
Grant a talent option for priests to spend a talent point into and gain the ability to not be restricted by a cooldown. But to balance that out to the point of not being overpowered, it will only dispel 2 magic effects at a time instead of all of them.
Meaning in the case of just having a single magical effects that needs to be removed then you can do so quickly as a priest as you will not be limited by a 8 second cooldown.
But having a lot of magical effects to remove per target, it may be a hinderance since you would have to spend multiple GCDâs to remove them all vs a single Purify cast.
So in terms of balancing, I donât see the problem. You gain in some aspects and loose out in others.
Itâs merely a choice that is not required just like how Shamans have a choice of how their Purge works.
So again, I see no difference in that regard.
Hell you can even have a choice node between a better less restricted dispel magic as I suggested and something like a 3rd effect dispel we donât have access to like Poison or Curse.
Now I donât agree that would be the best route in having that entirely new way to remove an effect we never had access to before, but the point remains, it could be offered as a choice node which I think could prove very compelling for each priest to choose from.
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Look Iâll level with you. It probably makes more sense thematically to keep Priests pursuing the dispel profile they always have through Magic dispels. I donât hate your idea; I just like mine better LOL.
I was looking for this line when I started reading the thread. This was the argument back in the day for why priests could only dispel 2 defensive options. For a time it seemed justified, until you consider that currently, Shaman can dispel Magic, Curse, and Poison defensively in addition to having purge to dispel magic offensively. This ability to remove 4 types of buffs/debuffs actually has made shaman the better dispellers, not to mention the new kids on the block who can remove Bleeds in additional to curses/poisons/magic/disease with a 1 minute CD.
The only thing we held over them for a while was mass dispel which could remove buff/debuff at the same time for multiple targets as well as non-dispellables. Honestly though with how they have completely gutted the priest dispel kit, which in the past was supposedly one of the things priest was the master of, we are a joke when it comes to dispels now.
Having the spammable dispel back would be nice I wonât lie as I went back and did a little with it in TBC and absolutely loved how it felt to be able to dispel on command as needed as oppose to just getting immediately resnared/root/etc as soon as I did it. Even so I honestly feel they should give priest more when it comes to dispels. If that is suppose to be part of our class identity being the master of dispelling than we absolutely need far more than what we have now, and more than what has been recommended in this thread, before we catch back up to Evokers and Shaman.
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Or at least make Mass dispell not a 2min CD frâŚ
Like we not only have bad dispells right now but our most unique dispel spell is a 2 min cdâŚ
We got removed our Knockback, no interrupt and MD is a long af cd
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No.
minimum characters
This is such a crazy reply to me because like, why do a couple people here want to actively keep better tools out of the Priest kit?
So many people want an interrupt for healer Priest specs. So many want better CC like Shining Force back or a ranged version of Psychic Scream. So many want better mobility for Priest in the form of some kind of displacement ability. These are just a couple examples, all of which would be far more powerful than a Poison or Curse dispel.
But for some reason, a forum post asking for Poison or Curse dispel to be added to the Priest kit, is somehow very specifically the one thing all Priests would hate to get and seem against?
Very strange honestly. Like really strange to me. Iâm actually glad I made this forum to gauge where some Priests are on this because this was truly a shocker. I expected everyone to want this seeing as how Iâve read a few other forums where Priests complained about it before. shrugs LOL. No seriously, am I missing something here?
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Because it, quite frankly, is the least of priest concerns. At least your idea is more plausible than the guy saying we should have no cool down for our dispell, which would break a lot of PvE encounters and make priests mandatory for all content. Blizzard is never going to go that way, so his walls of text were pretty much a waste of time to read.
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This is pretty much what I thought. I guess I didnât realize making a topic that wasnât the same thing over and over again would be such a miss XD.
Priest definitely has other much bigger problems. Thatâs for sure!
And yet for multiple expansions it worked out just fine for both Priest and Paladins to have a defensive dispel that didnât incur a cooldown outside the GCD and worked out just fine.
Wasnât the general take of Shadowlands raids is they were more punishing compared to Dragonflight and the wow devs recognized that and changed how they approach raid design?
So the wow devs are capable of changing how they approach encounter design which if that is your concern then itâs not much to go on other than the fact that the current state of the game is that every healer has a defensive Magic dispel with a cooldown.
Itâs funny that when the word homogeneous comes around that somehow all healers having a defensive magic dispel with a cooldown seems to go unnoticed.
Also, I did say I would accept a SELF only Magic debuff dispel option. That wouldnât break things at all as it would only bolster the Priests personal defenses.
I just know the game worked fine for multiple expansions with such a thing available to Priests and since it was removed, it created a massive problem that no good solution has been added to compensate which just makes a poor design decision as having the ability to remove constant slows and roots like from mages or dots from other priests, warlocks and druids have us the counter to their constant slows or movement displacement since we can keep up chasing them or running away to some degree. But now, after you use fade you just have to take it completely as shadow or use Purify every 8 seconds as Holy or Discipline while your feather and body and soul effects are completely negated in between.
I have yet seen an example as to how this would break the game other than just saying that it will or the claim that it makes priests mandatory.
Regarding the mandatory argument, I simply donât see how the trade off of having a defensive dispel that can be used constantly which takes up a GCD each time and only removes 2 magic effects at a time can break anything. They could easily just make it so you have more Magical effects beyond 2 that takes more GCD casts to remove and then you have to factor in the opportunity cost as each time you use a GCD to dispel, you are NOT doing something else.
So through trade offs or design changes, in PvE I donât see any issue. Only in PvP do I pause as that could legitimately potentially break things, but I canât think of anything that would break things so much that it goes beyond a small niche example and thrusted into every conceivable situation that arises would become broken if a spammable defensive magic was allowed again.
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Not so much in the modern game but back in the old days, Curse of Tongues was a massive detriment to Priests since so much of anything we do required hard casting a lot.
So it was a good way to balance going against a Priest in either a small skirmish or large PvP battle.
Similar to Curse of Tongues, Rogues with Crippling, Mind Numbing and Wound Poison in addition to Viper Sting and snake trap from hunters was a major issue that can severely cripple the Priest.
It is those examples as to why Priest should not have the ability to remove since it keeps some semblance of balance. Even though I admit that it was very annoying to deal with back in the day, but I accepted it since it that was a hard counter to what Priests can do.
The problem today is that those Poison and Curse effects are not as much as a problem as they either were neutered to some degree or we have things we can do that counteracts those effects in some regard. Which in effect devalues the need for such a counter even more.
But this is not the case with Magic debuffs. Now with so many magic debuffs being tossed around activity and passively, it seems that Magic is the primary debuff that causes the most issues.
This is why I think having better magic debuff control be it self only or group play would be the most beneficial to shore up our defensive since it can greatly make up for so many things we take issue with which makes sense since we were designed around always having that since the beginning and the rest of our toolkit that was added over the years either doesnât compensate for loosing self spammable dispel or is actually negated in itâs entirely because we canât used a self dispel all the time.
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The biggest wall for holy priest updates is actually the holy priest playersâŚ
Literally someone says hey maybe we should have a Brez and nobody actually supports the idea, no comments nothing.
Someone says, hey maybe we should be able to interrupt or dispel poisons. Other guys saying hpriest is just ok, we need other changes (They never say what changes or say somethin like, buff heal 30% and done)
The other day I said hey maybe we should have Restitution as an accesible talent without having to sacrifice too much dmg or healing as a way to add more uniqueness and utility to hpriest. And then no interaction or someone saying nah the talent is fine there (Eventhough 99% of the playerbase never picks it).
Then new expansion comes out, hpriest has no changes through all beta, the gameplay is exactly the same as previous expansion and people cry about having no changes or updates/reworks but the reality is that the majority seems to not really care at all
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It seems like a handful of people on the Priest forums are the only ones allowed to have âgood ideasâ for the class. Very cliquey here, whereas other class forums are much more open spirited.
Look, Iâm not saying everyone or even anyone should agree with me. Iâm 100% okay with people disliking the things I say. But Iâm telling you, if my exact post was made by someone else in the cool kids club on this forum, it would be lauded.
Iâve had suggestions torn down and misconstrued on here, meanwhile someone else will post an absolute brick wall of text, and somehow everyone read the whole thing and liked it⌠Iâve said elsewhere, these forums blow my bangs back and I meant it.
Coming back around to the main pointâ I think maybe at this point Priests are just really jaded in general with the class. Probably pretty pessimistic in general given the archaic class design, low quality utility and mobility, and lack of meaningful reworks. So thatâs what youâre going to most often see here.
Being their own worst enemy is probably a learned behavior at this point since Blizzard doesnât listen to anything we say on the Priest forums basically.
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I like your idea. How about instead of Mental Agility, we get a talent that modifies Mass Dispel into Mass Cure that removes all debuffs from all players in the raid within 80 yds.
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Interesting idea.
I find current Mental Agility to be basically a PvP talent at this point because you get much more use out of it with the Improved Mass Dispel PvP talent that makes the CD 1-min. On top of Dispel Magic having a lower mana cost and just being more useful in PvP as well.
The baseline 2-minute CD on Mass Dispel has now made Mental Agility a pretty niche pick. Itâs literally just a mana saver talent now. Was much more powerful when it reduced the cast time.
Your idea sounds like it would work like Mistweaver Revival/Restoral. I guess it wouldnât affect enemies anymore? But regardless, it would be an actually interesting choice. Sounds like a good place to put an actual choice node under Mass Dispel.
This would at least be worthy of itâs 2 minute CD, as itâs stands now it has so little power for something that has such a long CD.
Itâs silly to think this isnât the first time Blizz nerfed the CD of Mass Dispel, in the past it was 45 reduced to 15 via CD, and back then they decided adding a CD was a bad change, then they go and just completely out do themselves by adding an insane 2 minute CD which has zero rational logical thought behind it but few changes they make to priests do.
This is far from true. Rogues still have Crip/wound, and warlockâs not only hamper the priest with CoT(amp curse if needed) they can also shut down the priests partner with Amp curse on Weakness effectively shutting down many goes on a 1 minute CD. Add that a ton of pressure is created via bleeds, at some points so much so people switched to dwarf just to be able to cleanse them, and magic is far from the big debuff being thrown around.
While I donât think priests should be spamming dispels on more than just magic and disease giving them reasonable CDs to address many of the other debuffs only make sense, considering dispels is suppose to be one of the things disc is known for.
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So, we go back to encounters where a certain class becomes mandatory and if itâs not part of your comp itâs extra painful?
So many current encounters would be trivialized in m+ or raid by having one class that can dispell magic at will.
If mass dispell at its 30 second cd was too much magic dispelling too fast that it was nerfed to the moon and back, theyâre not going to make it so we can be dispell machines in a different way.
Self dispell? Maybe there is a way to work that in.
Otherwise, it doesnât fit within current design. I played back then too, when a warlock was a hard counter to a priest and mortal strike made you hate life. However, that style of play is not coming back.
Fix the PoM side of holy. Make our AOE heals worth casting, therefore single target aoe healing via lightweaver and trail of light isnât the best option for raid healing.