what does any of that mean about versatility?
??? People arenât wrong for not wanting an expansion released with over tuned classes and a bunch of bugs. This has happened the past few expansions and it doesnât make a good playing experience for the users. If you walked into a room and got smacked by the same guy 4 days in a row, on the 5th day what are you expecting? blizzard says theyâre listening to players more etc.
We donât want another expansion launched with over tuned classes and bugs, so here on the forums we b**** about it and hope they see it since they claim to be hearing players more. This very xpac launched with crazy over tuned stuff like rogue 1 shotting out of stealth or convoke procâin full moons taking entire HP bars, Divine toll killing entire teams etc. Itâs not fun. Those things were complained about in SL beta and still made it through so your take is a little smooth brained.
The xpac is rumored November, with all the stuff in DF and blizzards horrible record of balancing things, do you actually think people can trust they will launch the xpac in decent shape.
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Both of these were viable stats in the corruption raid to stack on every piece of gear fire was using
are you telling me i its a lot more burst dmg as fire mage to stack crit or mastery?
im not willing to grind the gear to find out but i dont think so.
Yeah, sort of.
Damage reductions increase your âeffective hpâ exponentially (not linearly); whether that is from vers, resil, some def cd, or whatever. Combine that with higher stam/total hp on new tiers of gear, and âeffective hpâ actually increases quite a bit from one season/tier to the next. That is where the âit will feel better once youâre fully gearedâ justification came from originally.
The caveat being that at normal amounts of the current iteration of versatility, that defensive scaling is offset pretty effectively by the +damage component of the same increased vers and other stats that your attackers are benefiting from when making the same upgrades.
Your attackers have to do quite a bit more damage to kill you if youâre at say 35% vers compared to 0% vers. That 17.5% damage reduction is more like a 21-22% increase in effective hp. But with the current damage profiles/cds that extra damage is just dealt quickly, maybe only 1-2 extra globals.
That is also why fresh/undergeared toons are so worthless in pvp settings, and do essentially 0 damage to geared enemy healers but also get instantly dumpstered by geared enemy dps.
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When people say âbut noone has vers yetâ isnât it usually in the context of early expansion gear when secondary stats are very low and arguing that late xpac it will fix itself?
If so, isnât the comparison between early xpac vs late xpac:
5% crit, 5% haste, 5% vers = 115% damage, 2.5% DR
vs
10% crit, 10% haste, 30% vers = 150% damage, 15% DR
If so, itâs still not clear to me how âno vers yetâ is a valid defense to early xpac concerns.
This is a separate point to whether or not itâs a valid time to be worried about beta numbers.
p.s. my math is overly simplified. I think that numbers actually get worse rather than better in late xpac because of the multiplicative effect of stat interactions (e.g., 5% crit x 5% vers = greater than 10% damage increase) such that damage scales faster than damage reduction since damage reduction only works off one stat vs four for damage.
Seems to me you are conflating multiple issues in your post:
- Whether damage overall is too high.
- Whether damage outscales survivability as an expansion chugs along (you only mention versa dr but thereâs also increased healing, health pools, and tuning along the way to consider).
- The OPâs original question/complaint on if getting versatility gear will help reduce burst damage with current gear.
With regards to 1 we donât know yet as there has been no numbers pass on beta yet and people donât know what it will really feel like when fully geared.
With regards to 2 I have no idea honestly, but typically it âfeelsâ like early seasons of an xpac are the burstiest and later ones are less so. There could be various reasons for this and I named a few, but there are probably others Iâm overlooking. It doesnât all hinge on versatility offering damage to dr at a 2:1 ratio though.
With regards to 3 I think this has been explained pretty clearly already. If you have 300 secondary stat points to allocate which one of these do you put them in to reduce the damage you take the most?
- Crit
- Haste
- Mastery
- Versatility
I think the answer is obvious.
Iâm addressing a single point. Which is whether survivability increases or decreases as the expansion moves along due to increasing secondary stat budget and the ability to prioritize versatility in allocating that increased secondary stat budget.
Seems to me that, at least based on secondary stats increasing, the answer is that it decreases.
If survivability increases, that may be due to stamina growing at a faster rate than primary stat but I donât think itâs due to additional secondary stat budget and the ability to significantly prioritize versatility over other stats.
Some of that additional secondary stat budget goes to other stats besides versatility and increases damage at a non-linear rate due to multiplication of the secondary stat impact. And even versatility adds to damage more than DR on a point be point basis.
So I think if you were to math it out looking at increased secondary stat budget in isolation and whether that increases or decreases survivability, I think the answer is that it decreases it because damage outpaces damage reduction.
OK my mistake.
I think stamina is a big part of it. I remember in BfA it was a big deal how much stamina kept increasing due to the artifact bonuses and it really outpaced damage increases (coupled with other issues increasing survivability). However it could still be versatility stacking adding to it despite the 2:1 ratio as damage reduction does not scale linearly. Iâm not good at math, but for stuff like that the more you stack the more powerful each point becomes. Still I think itâs usually stamina and outlier abilities getting reigned in with nerfs that usually lead to the slower pacing you see as an expansion matures.
Oh my sweet innocent summer child⊠if you think blizzard is making any more changes to the game now that itâs in beta youâre sorely mistaken 
The main problem with this is that stat weights vary by class, and so some classes may gain +5 dps per 1 vers, but gain +7 dps per 1 mastery or haste. So to assume that vers/x is the same dps as your 2 best secondary stats is simply incorrect, unless vers is also your best secondary stat.
Itâs true because if you werenât stacking vers youâd be stacking other stats.
Think of it like this hypothetically:
crit, haste, mastery, and versa give you 1 point of damage.
the player that stacks crit mastery, crit haste, or mastery haste, does 2 damage and takes 2 damage.
The player that stacks versa haste, versa crit, versa masteryâŠhe does 2 damage and takes 1 damage.
On paper youâre not wrong but youâre missing the part where by taking versatility they ARENT taking another stat.
Yeah Iâm aware that your numbers are made up which doesnât really matter. By putting 100 for both numbers of damage done, youâre signifying they do equal damage even if the numbers themselves are made up. Damage outpaces the defensive benefit of vers when its just comparing vers to itself, but some classes have secondary stats that give more dps than vers does. This would be more honest of a picture, but its still more complex than that.
- With full haste/mastery gear players do 125 damage and receive 100 damage.
- With full versa/mastery gear players do 100 damage and receive 75 damage.
Thatâs completely irrelevant. The person did not understand how getting versatility gear would reduce burst damage. I simply illustrated how that would look in my example. The exact dps gain each spec gets from each secondary stat doesnât matter for that.
edit: You could even completely ignore the dps portion of my example and it would still work (i.e only versatility would reduce damage received). I didnât do that because the OP was hung up on the 2:1 ratio it provides so wanted to include the damage it provides and was even overly generous with its dps benefit for most specs (versa is bis for some specs) just to make everything as simple as possible.
No need to focus on 2nd order terms such as dps stat weights though. Versa is the only secondary stat that offers dr so if you replace crit/haste/mast with it you will reduce bust damage on yourself 10/10 times.
It hasnt started all of SL either, so when is it?
âless dmg when everyoneâs stat budget is mostly versâ is a better way to state the same truth
this will depend on spec but i think generally itâs a little more useful to generalize that the player that stacks 2 stats that arenât vers does 3 damage and takes 2 damage.
I havenât seen anyone directly address the 2% - 1% thing yet.
So youre saying assuming your opponents also have versatility, that their 2% increased damage outpaces the 1% DR you get.
That 2% doesnât exist in a vacuum though. That comes at a cost of other secondaries.
For a lot of classes they might get 3% extra damage if that vers was crit instead for example.
What you need to look at instead of that flat 2% is the gap between that 2% and what they would be doing with a different secondary.
So at the absolute worst, they are gaining 2% if Vers the best secondary for the spec (which is rare). And even still youâre taking less damage with your vers than you would otherwise.
But most specs are losing potential damage by building into vers.
So instead of your 1% DR being outpaced by your opponents 2%, itâs more like youâre getting 1% DR and your opponent is most likely doing less damage than they would with a different secondary stat.
You are correct. People donât comprehend math.
Furthermore Versa dmg increase is modified through tons of spell modifiers increasing itâs effectiveness far past the base %. So 30% Versa isnât the same dmg increase for everyone. 30% Versa could increase a spells damage by 50% or 60%. Which is why it doesnât work in PvP.
If everyone has 30% Versa then everyone gets 40% Versa they will take far more damage at 40%.
Just remove this atrocious stat from the game. Give us WotLK Resil which was the pinnacle of PvP anyways.
This is a complete lie top to bottom
You jumped in without reading anything again
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