Not sure if there is an answer for this as I have looked with no success.
Does the Dev team plan on balancing or cutting back on leeway if it is indeed in a broken state, or is it being left as is for “authenticity” purposes.
I don’t understand the authentic argument on this one as I don’t remember hunter Kiting in pvp being an issue.
Thanks for any insight in advance.
from my understanding its being left as is for authenticity as well as spell batching.
i dont think it will be an issue as a hunter honestly…
It’ll likely be left as is, which is great. High latency however, isn’t the real issue here. It’s about Comparative latency. If player A moves away from player B, then player B moves to run after them, they can no longer reach them, if the distance is 1 between them. Player B won’t catch Player A, without movement skills. Player B uses a movement skill to reach player A. Player A uses a movement skill to regain a gap greater than 1. And so it goes on.
The question therefore is, what is a fair, equitable, reasonable distance, that would allow a melee player to attack a ranged player, or a retreating melee player, before the distance is unfair, inequitable, unreasonable. Is more than 8 feet unfair? Considering ranged players can attack at ranges of 30+, a melee “Leeway” of 8 to 10 seems fine.
Consider a Hunter using Auto Shot. 8 to 35 feet is required. So if a melee player can get within 8 feet, their attacks no longer work. But if a hunter can maintain a distance of 12-35 (outside of what I have seen as a visual show of moving-Leeway on a Tauren with it’s larger hit box) then the Hunter can hit the Melee Tauren, but not visa versa. Note also the middle ground of 8 to 12, where they can attack one another, while moving. That in itself, makes sense.
Now consider a Frost Mage, Player A, that a Warrior, Player B just reached, by whatever means. Player B starts a rotation on Player A. Seeing it start, Player A casts Frost Nova, and Blinks away. Oh no, now Player B cannot hit Player A, and is now being hit by spells! But Frost Nova wears off, and Player B Charges back in. As Player A moves away. But due to Leeway, while Player B completes the charge where player A -was-, the attacks can still occur even though Player A has moved a short distance away. Now Player A has to move away again.
The smaller the Leeway, the less fair it is to melee players.
The larger the Leeway, the less fair it is to ranged players.
It is not about authenticity, because the authenticity is in and of itself required for smooth game play. The issue that is really being argued over, is not “should or should it not be implemented”, but in fact “what is the right amount of Leeway”.
Leeway will be adjusted after months of lvl 60 pvp when they realize how wrong it is and hear the cries of all the ppl complaining that it’s not vanilla like. Remember, the beta only had like 5 ppl who actually knew what vanilla like is… the real game will have tens of thousands of ppl who remember vanilla much better than the rest.
Blizzard has confirmed in the not a bug list that leeway is working as expected and is not broken. With that information, I don’t see any changes happening.
Also consider, Leeway affects players and mobs alike. So it’s fair, or unfair, to everyone, regardless of the Leeway distance they use.
Yeah I understand the points given, but from a caster point of view, melee benefits from it but casters obviously don’t.
Not a big deal either way, whole point of this topic was to question leeway distances. I heard from some buddies that it was at an absurd distance during the beta. I wouldn’t know.
I only hoped that with how internet/ping are today compared to 2004, they might do some tweaking if necessary. From my perspective it’s only going to give melee an unfair advantage if what they’re saying is correct.
It’s very unlikely that they will adjust it.
If you’re going to quote me and give a smart answer at least read within the context of what was written.
Again this isn’t a thread bashing leeway and saying it shouldn’t be in the game.
It needs to be in the game but to what extent. I have heard from friends that were in the beta it was way out of line, with melee connecting from 8-10 yd ranges.
My question was relatively simple, if it’s found to be in a broken state, do the devs intend to adjust accordingly? Or is it a set in stone statistic.
I’m gonna look up some video hopefully when I get off work and take a closer look at what they’re all fussing about. Thanks for the replies guys and gals.
Seems Leeway is being left as is, no word of any change.
It was found to be in an authentic 1.12 Vanilla state.
Quote from Aggrend on the beta forums:
“Melee leeway” is working as intended in both PvE and PvP.
Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for.
And my original reply was simple as well. Its not in a broken state, as confirmed by the people who made the game.
Depends on how they look at the concept of “Authentic”, if you’re curious about what I am talking about, then read on.
If “Authentic” means raw numbers and values in a 1’s and 0’s kinda way then we already know how things can / will go.
If “Authentic” means how the game actually played, then that’s going to potentially mean that a lot of tuning is needed.
The same point can be made regarding Spell batching… In actual Vanilla just like in Modern WoW there is spell batching, but in Modern WoW it works a little different.
Here is the best way I can explain the system in terms that I think everyone can understand.
You have a server (program) and a client (program) These systems take turns talking back and forth updating each other.
So far here both Vanilla and Modern WoW are the same (mostly)
The difference is the implementation as I understand it…
In Vanilla there was allegedly only a single loop, meaning the server would say something, and the client would listen and update and then the client would say something and then the server would update… All this took place in 400ms time.
Additionally (as I understand it) Vanilla also did some things client side, such as Auto-attack, loot population from an NPC, vendor, etc… Loot was pre-loaded so that the interaction between when you take the loot or vendor an item was instant (in appearance) and then the actual transaction would be made on the normal batch cycle. Auto attack was allegedly this way, and there is also proof to back that up regarding a fellow who was hacking his swing timer in TBC and got busted due to an arena tournament cheating scandal.
Because of that cheating things were changed to be 100% server side and the client does nothing but communicate intent and display what you or others or the NPC’s have done.
As a result more “batches” or channels have been added to compensate for the work load being server side thus requiring more data to be transmitted more frequently to keep the same quality feel.
So as you can see they cannot “literally” copy / paste the old numbers into the modern systems and expect it to run the same because the client does not function in the same manner that the old did…
So because of this difference (regarding spell bacthing) they MUST tune the Classic WoW server / client relationship to play like Vanilla did instead of copy pasting 100% on raw data because it will not work.
It’s kinda the same thing with how they did spells in Vanilla Vs Modern WoW; the data tables work differently now, (similar but different) and as a result tuning is needed to get things right. This is why there are so many bugs for certain classes like Hunters.
There is no way imaginable to simply Copy / Paste the data from Vanilla into the Modern system and expect it work with the same literal values; it’s just not possible and tuning things to mimic the original game is a must.
So do you consider melee being effective in a 6-8 yd range authentic? There has to be a line drawn at some point, do you want to be a caster? Or a melee? If a Tauren warrior can literally melee a hunter from their effective auto shot range I would venture to say there’s an issue right?
It is authentic. Look at this timestamp and watch when the Tauren Warrior’s auto attack begins:
Doesn’t look authentic to me
Other races are doing it as well. Insane distances if you ask me.
Looks like we are all stuck playing melee because it’s even more op now.
Casters won all the dueling tournaments…
I don’t watch twitch so I wouldn’t know. Was it lvl 60 pvp with full toolkit’s and consumes?