So have only Layer One boat call the create for all the other layers on the other continent. The boat will guaranteed go through one cycle before anyone gets to it after a startup, so after the first jump, all the boats on the other side are in sync, and as the Layer One boat goes back it does the same for the first continent.
Better hope the servers don’t have anything causing things to lag on a given layer, or you are going to dump a bunch of players in fatigue water. Or drop them to their death if Horde.
Well, you’ve already said it’ll happen under the other model so no worse off ![:wink:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/wink.png?v=6" ":wink:")
I still think the boat transitions are an independent action that both sides listen to, but either way people should be fine.
Also:
Dumping in the water is so vanilla. #NoChanges
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The more and the more I think about this, the more I’m starting to see it as a possible bad sign. Blizzard no doubt has polling data, metadata from subscriptions and opt-ins, demographics and marketing research, etc. If I had to guess, they already have a tiered launch projection- low estimate, mid estimate, high estimate, etc. Basing things off the high estimate, they have decided they would need X servers at launch to accommodate the influx. For illustrative purposes, let’s say that low estimate is one server each (PvE, PvP, and RP); mid estimate is 10 servers each; and high estimate is 20 each. Assume each of those servers can handle 5000 people as a high-end before queuing people for log-in.
Servers cost money. So in true corporate fashion, their goal is to keep the bottom line as low as possible in order to maximize profit. The low estimate is obviously too low, and exists only as a floor for context purposes. But having the high estimate would be problematic in that anything less than high numbers would dilute the playerbase across too many servers. So they are instead aiming for the mid estimate. Put another way: rather than have 20 servers, they decide to test what the lowest number is that they can get away with. The obvious problem is that if they planned wrong, and instead the high estimate population logs in at launch, 10 servers could never accommodate that and people would be pissed off at the eternal queues and crashes/rollbacks.
Starting to see the need for layering, yet? It’s not a tool to alleviate congestion; it’s a tool to mitigate a possible low-ball of servers.
The argument that it will prevent server merges later on is just a symptom of this. It’s basically Blizzard justifying a low-ball on the server count at launch.
Okay, duh, you say. We all knew that. I get it. But what has me worried is that this kind of an endeavor really only goes one of two ways. Either Blizzard throws its hands up and says, “This is a museum piece [as some have said], so screw it- you get what you get!” or “We have dedicated an enormous amount of resources and time to get this correct, therefore…” The second one is the concerning one, as it means that part of the “enormous amount of resources and time” spent would necessarily include marketing data.
So, I’m starting to skid into the school of thought that Classic’s population may be underwhelming. Blizzard appears to be hedging its server count and server tech on this eventuality. Hope I’m wrong.
Until we know how many realms they really have we don’t have any concrete evidence on how many layers will exist. You are taking my speculation which is in no way fact and comparing it to your own speculation. None of this matters until we get a realm list.
During the Dev Interviews, Patrick Dawson said that there will still be queues, because they want to cap out the layers at a point where they think it will collapse back successfully. They can’t make layers endlessly.
To my mind that means whatever their expected % of loss is a factor of the maximum number of layers.
90% loss = max 10 layers.
80% loss = max 5 layers.
50% loss = max 2 layers.
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That’s entirely possible on a live layer… you can have 3k people in one area.
Streamers probably had around 800 like you said… about a little under a third of the layers population.
If that’s how it comes down, so be it. But on day one across 6 starting zones, I doubt you’ll find a third of the players in one zone.
11:30 to 13:00ish, Tipsout confirms the problem I experienced and am forseeing as a major issue at launch.
Ignore the private server comparison, it’s just the sheer number of players out questing. 500-1000 players in a starting zone wasn’t classic.
This example is why classic will be straight garbo with that sort of population control mechanic instead of just giving any damager credit for a kill or something more simple.
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Well imagine new players coming in from BFA or who never played WOW and they are excited to play the game.
Suddenly there are 500 people in every layer in the valley of trials, 500 people competing over 20-30 boars with 5 minute spawn timers. We are losing community memebers, and Blizzard are losing customers. 500 people competing over 10 scorpions and needing 10 tails (groups won’t help this).
Now they just spent literally the entire first day not playing WoW< but merely trying to TAG mobs.
There’s no way these people stay. This bottleneck is going to drive out a lot of players. Heck, this could drive out people who actually played vanilla but are on the ropes on whether or not to play. Nor is it fun for anyone really. Independent of your views and philosophies on no changes, Will anybody actually say the game is more fun as you wait 3-4 hours to finish the boar quest? It’s silly, and that’s exactly how it will be guys.
I did not play on day 1 release of the game, but I did play on day 1 release of the RPPVP server type. We had hundreds running around Teldrassil at a time.
It was incredibly fun. Who cares if it takes longer to do the quests? It was a great time to get to know other players, chat, establish server culture, set up guilds.
I disagree that anything is needed.
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Why can’t you have the same if not more fun actually DOING the quests and talking to people? You absolutely could. Just because you had fun regardless, doesn’t justify that it’s ok to spend an entire day tagging a few mobs.
How does an increased flow and gameplay expeirence in the starting zone take away from your fun in any way? There is no negative to increasing the starting zone flow for anyone. If you have fun tagging boars all day, then you’ll have fun going at the intended rates too.
There is only a negative impact on the players who will not have fun sitting at a spawn tagging level 1 mobs for hours.
It means I can’t actually talk to most of the players while I’m in the starting zone. I can’t find most of the like minded players that I’ll actually want to keep in touch with for the following months or years. I can’t set the groundwork for a guild, because most of the potential members aren’t in my layer.
Layering makes all the mistakes live does, by removing much of the communication that underlies the establishment of the server community.
Just use queues. They worked fine in Vanilla.
Heya Irisse. It’s the starting zone, levels 1-5. That is a minute fraction of the overall time you spend leveling. It was intended to take maybe 2-3 hours to finish this zone, that is the vanilla principle. It was not intended to take 2-3 hours to tag 10 boars because there are 500 people in the zone sitting on spawns. That means you are literally not moving, not able to quest, not able to play the game. You are simply sitting there. This is incredibly disheartening for many players, and even game deciding for players on the ropes. That scenario is simply bad design, nor is it following the vanilla principle design.
How can you not chat with people as you are questing and tagging boars? If there are more mobs available, then you could simply stop at your discretion and chat at will. An increased flow doesn’t take anything away from you if you wish to stop and slow down. But a bottleneck does take away from everyone by forcing them to literally sit on a spawn and tag 1 mob every 5 minutes.
The starting zone is the formative period for players’ relationships with the server community, and for the first players, for the establishment of relationships that will build the server community and culture. Spending a day in it instead of an hour is if anything an advantage, since it will permit players enough time to build stronger bonds. This can’t happen if you can’t talk to all the players as they flow through the starting zone.
If you don’t like the initial crowding, why not just wait a day or two before making a character? That way I get what I want, and you get what you want too.
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Asking other players to wait days to play merely because they don’t like something, how is that justified or fair?
If you don’t like it, leave. That is not a good philosophy in general, especially to improve something. If you don’t appreciate something, you are able to offer feedback and push for changes.
If you are truly a no changes person, then having 500-1000 people in a starting zone actually IS a change from vanilla.
How about, instead of making unrealistic and irrational demands that blizzard accommodate you, why don’t you just wait? Start playing classic September 1. Then the starting zones will be more comfortable for you, there will be plenty of people spread out in all the zones so group quests later will be easy to coordinate. Problem solved.
If you go to a midnight premier of a super hyped movie, do you get upset if the theater is full and louder than you’d like? You don’t get to demand the theater show it on an extra screen with just you and your friends in that theater. It’s the same thing. But, you could always come back two weeks later and go to a matinee if you want a quiet movie experience.
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Unrealistic demands? Blizzard and Ian have stated they don’t want gameplay to be too disruptive. They are working to improve the game every day. They created layering, they already have sharding tech available. They want to improve the game. They are striving from a close to as vanilla experience as possible, and 1000 people in a starting zone is not that.
IF there are 1000 people in the theatre, then I can still watch the movie. The movie flows as intended regardless. That is not a game. The number of people change the flow of the game. An overwhelming number of people swarming an area never intended to hold that many drastically alters the flow of the game.
The movie plays on as intended regardless of how many are watching it. A game does not. You will literally be standing still on a spawn point, tagging a mob every 5 minutes. How is that similar? The game is not moving as intended, and everything has changed. How is that even fun? Why are you so vehemently opposed to something that is not a vanilla principle anyhow?
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To the contrary, that’s exactly what new servers were like later in Vanilla.
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